…The better class balance in wrath classic and how having more specs competing for top damage is a bad thing(it’s not). While posting on a Paladin to attempt to give their inane ramblings some sense of legitimacy.
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That seems like a wildly sad thing to complain about
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I’m game for these, but warriors themselves don’t seem all that interested in non-fury buffs.
I wonder why that is.
We would be middle of the pack and probably benched without it, never mind getting that Shadowmourne to get to the middle of the pack.
Which is really the center of your argument, isn’t it?
Yep, basically it’s encapsulated in:
I think warriors aren’t good enough because they are only middle of the pack until they get shadowmourne.
But also rets should be the absolute worst DPS, because they are middle of the pack with shadowmourne, which I’ll call “good.”
So, what’s good for rets is bad for warriors. The justification? Random utility buttons that ret rarely ever uses because boss design doesn’t require them and you already have holy / prot paladins and other specs for full coverage anyway.
But believe him, people would TOTALLY bring the worst DPS class for 3% damage instead of just bringing an arcane mage.
Ha, I’d wager more folks would bring a BM hunter rather than a ret simply cause of the actual useful pet utility 
“they were at the same point”
ok…
“one got buffed”
alright i’m listening
“the one that isn’t buffed is marginally better than the one that did”
ok so blizzard got it completely correct? damn, but the one with the higher dps numbers without the buff didn’t scale hard…hmm, yeah… i see
warrior outscaled the ret you “knew would be good” so hard that it took over the ret after a 12% buff, on single target, in am spec, vs undeads, with its “broken” taj, that’s completely wild, thankfully blizzard never buffed warriors or we’d literally be looking at like a 19k dps st sim
Abralan is a Fury main confirmed?
Edit to add: Abralan is wrong. DSAC spec tanks the DPS by several hundred and it is absolutely NOT top 3 in DSAC spec. But if they actually PLAYED Ret, they would know that, kinda proving my meme of a point.
Oh? Can you show me the survey results outlining what Warriors actually want?
I wouldn’t base it on two or three regular posters on this particular topic in this particular forum.
I actually think if you did a survey you’d find many Warrior players have alts. You’d also find many don’t support Fury buffs in the current or next phase, and also man do support Arms or Prot adjustments. Many even that oppose any buffs or nerfs at all - and many who simply don’t care.
In fact you would probably find the majority of Warrior players are just like players of any other class …
My problem with Classic interventions by the devs is precisely this - they seem to act like the forums and streamers are a representative sample. Not once have I come across anyone that has received a Blizzard survey about class balance. So, if they’re not surveying it then when they say “due to community feedback” they mean due to the noise of an unrepresentative sample.
I’m not seeing a lot of forum support for Fury buffs by the way - it’s literally three posters. There’s more forum activity of people bagging out Warriors for asking for buffs than actual warriors asking for buffs.
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Haven’t seen this mentioned but this buff that is 10-12% now is only amounting to 7% in the sims in P4 BiS sims.
You can look at his guild’s ToGC reports and find the Fury Warrior with the similar name.
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BTW folks, normally I’m not a parse shamer, I don’t believe in it as parsing is a guild reflection. But this is who we’re arguing with about the very top 3-5% of raiders.
character/us/benediction/abralan
Look em up at WCL.
Probably makes more sense to look up the dudes main:
https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/US/Benediction/Abramsz
At any rate, there’s enough wrong with the dudes arguments that you don’t need to pick at their parses (which are actually okay).
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As a warrior, sure. But why aren’t they posting on said warrior? I find that very interesting. Especially since yeah, the warrior has far better logs. It’s almost like they’re trying to HIDE behind their pally as if it gives them some extra source of authority, when in reality it’s most likely that their LC either is or is considering giving a ret SM over them, so OF COURSE they’re hear to complain.
Maybe they can’t. I know I can’t because Blizzard have broken my mains forum avatar. There’s a lot of others in the same boat. Why’s it matter though?
Because this isn’t the first of these rants Abra has been on, all of them very much pally bad warrior gud. All while getting paladin information wrong and being extremely inflammatory about it.
If you check their guild’s information you’ll see Abralan doesn’t even make the cut as a “recent raider.” Multiple other characters that start with Abra that are though. So if the warrior is broken, maybe post on the shaman? Or at least admit to being a warrior main upset at being overshadowed and isn’t first prio for the shiny orange thing for one of the last 3 xpacs.
It’s about honesty. Honesty in debate. Something this world has gotten real bad at. I could be in here hiding anonymously on one of my alts, too. But if I wanted to actually speak what good is hiding going to do me?
Fair enough. Still, I prefer playing the ball and not the man. It’s pretty clear that Abra’s arguments are … desperate. There’s no strong case for buffing Fury at present and I think even he knows it. But he’s bitter about the buffs Feral and Ret received in earlier phases.
I think there is valid criticism that can be laid at Blizzards feet about how they have handled class balance. It’s not been a transparent or “fair” process. But, I don’t think there’s any grounds to claim that Ret is unbalanced. The greater issue is that Bliz hasn’t supplied any metrics to assess class balance - it’s all been adhoc and kneejerk - which in turn encourages people like Abra to have a crack to see if they can get a buff…
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And on this I can agree with you. But such has been their M.O. forever. Their method of balance was gut feelings and 1 on 1 duels between devs in OG Vanilla. They’ve come a long way obviously, but we watched them massively overbuff feral at first and try to roll it back and how that all went, because they didn’t do significant enough testing.
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Yeah… im really kind of bummed that they got Ret’s balance tweak pretty much spot on in terms of a reasonable place for the spec in Ulduar and beyond, but then opened the door for people to say “it’s all bad!” With how much they just butchered the feral changes in terms of balance.
So now people lump what they did to ret in with the “bad changes” when really they just screwed up with one specific change that they are annoyingly not fixing because they also butchered the fix the first time.
The rest of the changes (trap launcher, munching fixes, etc) have generally been good too. Even the deep wounds spell interaction was probably the right call to keep warrior BiS neck from being a vanilla item that no longer exists…
It’s wrath like to be doing these tweaks to smooth stuff out for how players are currently playing the game. That’s the experience we had back then.
Parse shaming is pretty cringe, most of a person’s parse comes from their raid, and TOGC is fairly anti-parse for a lot of guilds due to 50/50. Worst of all is attacking the person instead of the argument - I guess it’s impossible to have an informed opinion. Kind of like how you can’t taste food unless you’re a premier chef :^)
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The Ret buff was pretty much dumb luck.
Blizzard committed to not buffing Ret and then knee jerked the other way. They lucked out by plucking a decent solution off the internet (seemingly at random landing on a suggestion from Survailent that was pretty well thought out).
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