You are going to be stun locked by rogues in P2 and can’t press a healing button anyway.
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Right now priests can never die 1v1 to any class unless they are naked, or absolutely brain dead, except hunters but that’s a separate issue.
This is never a good thing. Healers should be just as easily killed as any other spec. Like even rogues who are notorious for being priest killers in all of wows expansions, have 0 chance against a priest that can press 3 buttons, shield, dot, fear.
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I dont think healers should tank 4 dps, they shouldnt be able to tank even 2 dps if they are of equal skill to the healer.
I simply think in group pvp healers should be able to “tank” 1 to 1.5 dps before going oom and they shouldnt go oom from 1 to 1.5 dps for atleast 30 seconds which would give the friendly dps the ability to peel, cc, etc.
I simply do not want the game to revolve around one shotting people and globaling people. Healers deserve to be worth their spot. They shouldnt be able to tank 2+ or 4 but they should be able to heal atleast 1 dps.
FYI none of this matters to me as i already said i would be going shadow at 40 because blizzard do not want people to heal in pvp because they chose to nerf priests instead of buffing mages paladins and shaman.
I have no dog in this race i simply want a relatively balanced fun pvp game that isnt who ever gets the first global , one shot, or stun 100% to 0% off which i originally thought blizzard also wanted due to the resil helm and wsg 25 percent damage nerf
No it isnt, the problem was the fact that it costs 58 mana at level 25.
Penance costs 79
Flash heal which heals 300ish on a crit costs 170 mana
Heal which takes a year to cast heals for 500 or 900ish on a crit costs like 250 mana
The mana was the problem not the healing
shields are terrible absorption to mana ratio, you only shield before the fight so you can drink 5 seconds before engagement or you use shield in a desperate scenario, every shield is literally 10 percent of a geared priests mana, or 20 percent of an ungeared priests mana
Premades shouldn’t be fighting pugs, perioid. Blizzard should not allow organized teams to fight unorganized teams.
Organized premades vs premades which i guarantee you i have been in more than you have, the other team has discord call outs to focus dps, the person dies in literally .3 seconds, no prayer of healing goes out because only one person is damaged, penance can not heal through it, flash heal is too slow.
In organized play prayer of mending is a complete non fact or.
In unorganized play prayer of mending is oppressive and should cost 20 percent more mana not 20 percent less healing.
If you think 10 unorganized dps should win against 7 organized dps with 3 organized healers then you dont think healers should exist at all.
Premades shouldnt fight pugs, that’s it.
What you’re missing is in PvE Priests were doing way more healing than everyone else, for way less mana. It was absurd. Even on my Priest I found it boring. Many Priests have started bringing Homonculus and DPSing as much as they can they’re so bored and the healing so unnecessary.
PvP can be balanced separately. DPS doing too much damage doesn’t mean you buff all the other healers to compensate and break the game. It means damage needs a reduction in PvP.
Next I’d say Druids need a few adjustments. Wild Growth needs to be brought down and the other healing runes need to be improved so they’re worth using. And balance it all so they’re not as OP as Priest (cause right now pre-nerf they’re almost as good as Priests).
Yes it is. See any healing meter ever. It is constantly chip healing players with damaged HP bars for almost no mana, on very low CD. It is ultra effective in wsg.
This is why you take 3 priests. It is ultra stable and they can easily rotate out for drinks.
Separate discussion. I think that this needs to be addressed, and the main reason that it is such a problem is that any team stacking 3 priests is virtually invincible to a pug team regardless of skill. This strategy is far too effective, and the root cause is that priest is just insanely powerful in BGs
To be fair, Priests are going to run out of mana if they’re healing and dpsing and dispelling and all the other tools they have. It’s just the runes that are broken right now.
Not according to logs they weren’t.
Average hps of priest was 5 points above shaman and paladin, 2 points above druid, 12 points above mage.
Is 5 HPS on average “way more” healing?
With a 20 percent nerf to healing throughput priests will now be the worst healers in PvE via logs and HPS metric.
In unorganized pugs vs organized premades prayer of mending does heal a lot. Your point? Premades shouldnt face pugs and no pug will have 3 priest healers.
Completely moot, focus dps, dispell prayer of mending, CC the healer, literally anything you do breaks prayer of mending healing.
Rotate out for drinks against unorganized pugs. Priests dont drink in premade vs premade.
Premades should not fight pugs.
It is a matter of composition, if you took 3 healers of any class against an unorganized pug with no to minimal healers the organized premade with 3 healers of any class would win 95 percent of games.
You are confusing composition with the class being OP, priest had the best heals against trash players in unorganized pugs for basically no mana cost and thats why they were taken, any other healer could have been taken and stomped pugs but it would have cost mana and it would be less rep per hour waiting for healers to drink in between wiping the pug team until they AFK as a ghost outside the spirit healer radius
Any healer would make a premade win 95 percent of games but priest let those games be 8-11 minutes long not 11-14 minutes long
Well I’ll say I agree with this at least because otherwise they’re not worth bringing to a party because they can’t pull their weight. If someone is attacking a party member, the healer needs to be able to actually keep them alive.
This is honestly not true. If you can heal all 5 party members for the full heal it’s actually super efficient. No it’s not as good as Wild Growth, but that’s OP and needs to be adjusted. And in general having an AoE heal is a really nice tool for fights that need it. TBD on how it looks post-nerf, however.
does it say how much mana was left in the priests pool with all that healing?
im willing to bet it was alot more than all the other healers.
Thats because the raid is a glorified leveling dungeon not because priests are OP, 5 HPS over the other healers average healing is not OP healing.
The raid is boring and easy, period.
20 percent nerf makes priest have the worst HPS out of all the healers in PvE.
Buff all healers in PvP.
Balancing cant be done AT ALL much less separately, blizzard does not know how to balance their game and never has except for brief periods of time during certain expansions, maybe 3 months of balance during 3 year gaps of unbalance.
darn too bad healers can’t play the game together, guess they are just doomed to solo healing in pvp and getting smacked.
Your team will be there for support, if one healer is getting tunneled you have one or two other healers there to pick up the slack. In addition, your dps should be peeling for you whether that be CC on the enemies attacking your healer… throwing a BoP… fear bombs etc
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again does it say how much mana the priest had left over from all that healing?
hps is a funny thing in that you can only do the hps on targets that have health to heal and doesnt count overhealing.
what healer is going OOM in the glorified leveling dungeon BFD raid?
The fights last for 30 seconds to at most 1 minute.
Also as i said in the OP and numerous times in this thread, mana cost could have been increased by 20 percent instead of making priest the worst HPS healer in PvE in the game.
No healer ooms in bfd outside of the first 3 lockouts. People havent been ooming in bfd for like over a month.
Nerf the mana cost of penance and pom by 20 percent because it’s a problem in PvP, it has no effect on PvE because no healer ooms in PvE anyway unless you have trash gear or are in a trash group that gets DUST TO DUSTed
In premades if a healer can’t outheal a single dps worth of damage the premades will stop taking healers all together and in unorganized play there is rarely another healer and the dps players will not peel for them and if they also can not outheal a single dps players dps then they will be a hindrance and an anchor dragging their team down.
It’s not all of your skills. It’s just the runes. All your other heals remain the same. So it’s not a flat 20% healing reduction. Less than that depending on how much of your healing came from runes vs other heals.
this isnt true that they wouldnt take a healer at all even if they couldnt heal more than 1.5 worth of dps.
25 seconds in a bg is a full lifetime. people shouldnt be able to last that long with someone having full uptime on them dpsing them.
thats silly.
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Played on my Priest for a couple hours this am.
Didnt really feel much different than yesterday. Sure I noticed a change but not that big of a deal Still healed WSG, still healed dungeons. HAvent gotten into the raid until this weekend but I dont foresee much issue tbh
I mean, anyone that plays a priest knows that 90 percent of their healing is prayer of mending and penance
the other 10 percent is renew flash heal, heal if your group really sucks
so instead of a flat 20 percent reduced healing its more like a flat 18 to 18.5 percent reduced healing which means priests will still be the lowest HPS healer in PvE
Yes they would. No premade would take a healer over another person who can one shot the opposing team if that healer is able to be one shot/globalled.
You dont play in premades.
25 seconds of having a single dps player on them meaning they arent healing anyone else and that’s 25 seconds till oom
So in this scenario you trade 1 to 1 with a dps on a healer, the healer goes oom in 25 seconds and doesnt heal anyone other than themselves, then after 25 seconds the healer dies and the dps is alive and killing the rest of the healers team
Being able to survive 1v1 against a single dps for longer than 25 seconds isnt OP, thats not even the bare minimum to consider a healer viable enough to bring in a premade.
at 40+ healers will not exist in organized pvp and in unorganized pvp healers will be the reason your team lost because you didnt have more one shot DPS on your team.
86.6 average parsing Priest here. My 1 99 was top 300 when I got it. I’ve also tried healing on the mage a bit, with at the time a top 500 on Saveress. The answer is 0 or next to 0. Every time. Mana is a problem for all casters, not just non-priest healers. Priests suffer from the same issues as everyone else when it comes to small mana pools, low regen, and being at the mercy of fight lengths. Sure, in the 99%+ where people are killing these bosses fast as hell, priest is a little op compared to the rest. But in your -average- group, they were barely above the other healers (except mage, mage needs a buff).
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/living-flame/eclipse
https://vanilla.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/living-flame/qlypse
(I’m not the best nerds, I know it. Just posting logs for context that I at least know a -little- about what I’m discussing.)
Thank you for contributing here. I don’t actually log on my priest in BFD but i do find myself with mana at the end of the fight but our lineup on alliance allows paladins to cheese mechanics and I always use the bfd mana oil and sage delight 3mp5 buff food and have wisdom, if you play horde it could be very different
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Unfortunately you have a bunch of people without much knowledge or experience with healers out there claiming priests were god mode because of the WSG hidden DR and the fact that a lot of pre-mades stacked MULTIPLE priests. Meanwhile I wouldn’t even bother to queue for WSG on my resto shaman or engage in WPvP if I can avoid it because it’s laughably easy to shut down any healer that doesn’t have an arsenal of instant casts and a big bursty 12 second CD. Other healers need buffs and still do.
In PvE people are judging priests 1 healing raids full of very geared high DPS because they don’t have a variety of experiences with different geared groups of different comps (like in the PUG world). PUGs got carried by priest healers a lot. I barely made it through some pugs on my priest alt. The nerfs are going to be painful for the people still doing BFD with groups/alts that aren’t already geared.
Priests already run OOM when you have to cast many non-rune heals and a lot of people are about to experience that reality if they weren’t already. If you pugged as a priest at all you HAD to already cast more than PoM and Penance a lot of the time, especially on the last boss in BFD, because some of these groups take a lot of damage. They’re not as geared. The DPS aren’t as high to shorten the fights. Other healers needed buffs to their efficiency, priests actually also needed buffs to runes like serendipity and strength of soul so some of their non-rune spells could have been more efficient and actual decent options as well.
We need people who are more objective and knowledgeable about healers and who want the game to also be fun for healers making design choices and not classic era cultist/masochists that have a mentality of wanting everything to suck in order to be more fun.
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