would you accept a compromise of 10ms of PVP but 400ms for raid environment? I like TBC too by the way.
The entire game will feel more responsive.
Combat will feel better.
NPC interactions will feel better.
Everything will feel better.
The game will be more enjoyable for the vast majority of people playing it, period.
batching is an even bigger disaster in PVE than PVP
It’s successful despite batching not because of it when batching was added in beta virtually everyone playing beta greatly disliked it. But a handful of whiners insisted it was skill based and for some reason blizzard caved.
The question of how to set it up to play far more like Vanilla is the question. To emulate the server and client distribution of processing; maybe run two batch loops, with a tuned Vanilla batch on certain spells spells only? Then put character locations, character facing targeting and in-out of combat and maybe even interrupts and CC on the second 10ms loop?
This may be a way to clean it up and preserve the nature of some of the more clandestine stuff. It is interesting that they were able to block the Paladin force crit expostfacto, but don’t do this for elemental shaman when in reality it’s the exact same spell mechanic.
Another funky behavior is the in combat drop combat that I have been abusing since launch, I haven’t tested this yet on PTR, but it’s kinda nuts and I think you know what I’m talking about, I don’t exactly want to make that one too popular.
But this all asks the question of why this change is being considered now? Are they simply trying to crush a bunch of problem bugs that are created by a 400ms window on the retail system that didn’t exist in Vanilla? I can think of quite a few oddities unique to this classic wow that didn’t exist before, so that’s just one of many questions to answer. This does seem likely and presented with the option of employing a coder to clean it up or just take the easy way out this may be that?
Wouldn’t the compromise be the opposite? 400 MS in pvp and 10 MS every where else? Since it seems like the only people in favor of high batch timing are pvp players and pvp is pretty broken anyways for other reasons.
I suspect that to provide a more Vanilla feel it would need two loops with stuff like Position, facing, in-out of combat and maybe even CC on a 10ms loop to emulate the client side services, and a more Vanilla batch for the spells like fireball and so on. Question, is 400ms Vanilla the same as 400ms Classic? I’m asking because it could be that how they resolve things is different making something like 400ms in Classic more like 800ms in Vanilla or maybe 1200 ms in Vanilla, just depends on how data is counted. Like in Vanilla did they count only server to client as 400 or did they count client to server back to client as 400 being a more complete loop of sync between the server reference and your distributed computing at the client.
That uses the same number but the two ways of categorizing the same vale change the way it would play even though 400 is the stated number.
You can execute earlier, it’s a buff to Warr
Technically you can execute earlier but I think this actually may have some adverse effects you may not have given consideration to yet. The one who gazes reminded me that this batching thing may not be limited to just your actions and the actions of your enemies, but because of how blizzard has this set up it could be both a massive blessing and a colossal curse. Really they might need a couple of resolution loops to deal with the situation because of how very different Vanilla servers and clients were compared to what we have now. I assure you the meta now VS then is similar in terms of what you can do and get away with, but there are things that were possible in Vanilla that don’t work that way any more because of how the batching thing acts, however on the same coin there are things you can do now that were simply not possible in Vanilla.
So lets say for a moment that blizzard flawlessly duplicated the vanilla client, and servers and put those up instead and on patch day that’s what we got… No one is the wiser, I can tell ya that there are a few present tricks that would not work any longer, but there would be a few that I could use again. Its a mixed bag for several classes if you know where to look. I don’t want to spoil all the fun, nor do I want to popularize certain things that are questionable in terms of “is this an exploit?”, but they do raise some serious questions.
Thus far on the PTR things do feel really good, but I just havent got enough time on it to know any better, ill go do some testing and with any luck we can all provide some really good feedback that Blizzard may consider?
What I am saying is that even though I like the feel of the PTR the OP has a point, and He who Gazes has reminded me of my roots, that sly devil.
Lets hope leeway is gone next!
I believe leeway is needed, else anyone playing with 300ms ping would find it hard to connect to target.
Fixed for you.
Blizzard removing an artificial handicap that doesn’t feel good to play with is a good thing.
Imbue weaving was a stupid mechanic and I guess I’ll put seal twisting into the same basket.
Batching is not an “artificial handicap” is a faithful recreation of the original behavior of the vanilla, tbc, wotlk, cata, and mop servers.
Only in WoD did Blizzard introduce the new retail system where spells are processed by the server within 1-10ms.
This has fundamental implications for the gameplay of classes and class balance.
Whether or not you think it’s a good mechanic or a stupid mechanic is not the point – without these mechanics we are no longer playing vanilla world of warcraft, instead we are playing a game that is more like retail with all the rough edges sanded down in order to be more friendly to players who don’t want to invest the time and effort to learn novel and interesting quirks of the game.
Mindtrick is right. Spell batching adds an important dimension to the game, allowing users to do things like cancel out one CC with another, or completely immune/break from CC with special items. It’s very hard to do but one of the most skillful, rewarding things a player can do in PVP. In PVE, batching allows for special mechanics that simply don’t work otherwise, like seal twisting for pallies. Removing batching would be a huge step backwards. Currently the window feels too big to me and I think reducing it to say ~200ms would be fine, but with 10ms it might as well be gone. I hate to see classic get watered down for folks who will never be happy with it anyway. I think if “feeling responsive” is more important to someone than core mechanics like batching, then they should probably just play shadowlands where all the polish is there. If you take away the special things that made classic great, then what is it anymore? The appeal of classic was never the polish, and it was never the quality of life mechanics. There’s a place for polish and quality of life, and it ain’t vanilla wow.
As I understand it, a lot of private servers have taken this approach (200-250ms as a compromise). Khlause, who is pretty knowledgable on the topic as well, has also suggested that although 400ms batch size is faithful to the vanilla, tbc, wotlk, cata, and mop servers, there is more processing done on the server in later expansions and less done on the client side (also true of current classic, which is built from a retail fork codebase), which can lead to the same batching window feeling larger due to the relative balance of server and client load.
I would say also that player awareness of batching and general knowledge of the game has greatly, greatly increased since vanilla, which has the effect that players notice it more even if it’s been there all along.
Anyway, the change to 10ms feels like an alarming copout and an abandonement of the philosophy of trying to re-create all of the rough edges and quirks of vanilla. I would have accepted less drastic tuning of the batching window as an attempt to get it right and preserve these quirks and unique mechanics while accepting the realities of the modern, retail-forked client and server, but 10ms feels like a total abandonment of what was supposed to be the core design philosophy of classic. This is a gross overreaction to be be able to say “look, we hear you! and we are doing something about it!” to satisfy an ignorant mob that mostly doesn’t understand batching to begin with or operates from outright misinformation, which is unfortunately rampant in the community.
I love the quirks and rough edges of this game. It gives it so much depth and potential for inventive gameplay that is still worthwhile to explore even 16 years later.
They still use spell batching.
That’s one downside, that affects everyone.
Warriors can only benefit, pvp and pve. Getting sapped mid charge, shouting rogues with demo shouts somehow still getting openers, faster execute.
And @mindtrick, your whole argument is wrong because back then in 2004 we had atrocious internet connections and computers so the batching actually made the game feel normal and fast.