The PvP meta is borked, and should change in TBC. It wouldn’t be particularly accurate to TBC if we still had this massive delay that wasn’t even accurate to vanilla for everyone.
You’re completely misinformed. The large delay WAS present in vanilla, TBC, wotlk, cata, and mop.
This is what one of the developers, Celestalon, wrote during WoD development explaining the spell batching change to the community:
https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/topic/13087818929#131814318748
So now copying this behavior from recent retail expansions into classic is a radical, drastic difference from what the actual true server behavior was in vanilla, tbc, wotlk, cata, and mop.
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Shouldn’t be, but bad game and client side mechanic abuses are things that allow endless bots to fly hack through the skies!
As much as I love to make fun of your “scortched earth” rhetoric, I agree 100% on this one. Exploits like this need to go.
I can’t tell you how many times in a Raid our MT has died, and after checking raid logs, all the heals that landed at the same time as a crushing blow were considered overheals but yet the tank died to a hit that did less than his maximum HP due to spell batching.
Or the countless times I’ve interupted a mage on my 59 twink that casted ES that killed him, but yet I’m still polymorphed.
These are not “fun”, they are annoying. The only time I would consider it “fun” is watching a bear and a warrior charge each other only to stun/immobile each other and swap positions. But, again – fun to watch, stupid and frustrating to experience.
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I agree! Great topic!
Preserve them as the game is on these current legacy servers.
Change the batching system moving forward, and use that as the skeleton for fresh/TBC/WoTLK/legacy content
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So? Batching was never a game play mechanic it was an artifact of required server performance tuning. Blizzard’s response from the start should have been “one of the benefits of using modern server architecture is that batching is much more responsive”
Any pretending batching has anything to do with skill is fooling themselves. And the once in a blue moon double sheep or whatever do not at all make up for making literally everything in the game feel slow and laggy.
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Small minded & mediocre players always insist that intentional batching plays aren’t “skill” you just got lucky.
Buddy the only thing limiting you is your own imagination and lack of game awareness / precognition to pull off these plays…
The secret is, vanishing blinds isn’t actually hard if you know enough about the game and your opponent to know the exact moment when he should press blind…
It’s not about reaction speed it’s about prediction and game knowledge… and it always has been that way
You’ve had the same 16 years as everybody else to learn how to do it, the difference between the ones who are doing it vs. you is that you limit yourself by convincing yourself it’s not possible while those who know it is possible are out there practicing how to do it consistently…
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The meta shift will be real, and my abuse of restealth and ghetto premed will destroy even more keyboards.
Trade off is I can no longer reliably vanish cheap shot from stealth enchant + boots + talents rogues any more after the fact, and can no longer vanish HoJ after the fact any longer. Instead gonna have to go back to the Vanilla way and predict it. That among a few other things like post kicking casts, and other not exactly Vanilla things.
Will the meta be better?? Well maybe, I am positive that I’ll adapt again, and hopefully blizzard does a better job checking for stealth or “behind target” because I think in Vanilla that was done client side making it more responsive like on private servers and real Vanilla where as here it’s positively terrible making the action of getting a restealth mid cast almost meaningless at range because often the cast will compete regardless of the timing. There is a lot of really terrible stuff going on with the present version of classic regarding the combat mechanics, and the PTR feels actually really good. Rogue overall was feel like pulls a little bit ahead overall.
<3 the one who gazes at a certain thing that shal not be named simply because of a certain hatred from a certain group of incredibly bias individuals. PS, that post about SL PvP vendors, you nailed it. Rule number 1 never trust blizzard.
Why is it always the people who don’t understand how batching works who want to pretend it had anything to do with skill? We have no visibility to when batches are ticking, hence you have no ability to actually time your abilities to fall within a specific batch.
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Yes it will undeniably shift the meta in such a way that the rich get even richer (warrior buffs, rogue buffs) which is not necessary because those classes are already incredibly good.
But the thing that saddens me more is the lowering of the skill cap inherent in all of the novel and inventive plays that were possible because of batching.
And what is most frustrating about the conversation happening around this topic is the sheer # of people commenting who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, some of these fools even insisting that a 10ms batch window will be more like the vanilla they remember, which is a total anhistoric delusion.
I urge you to reconsider Khlause. If I can’t convince you of all people, someone who truly gets it, then there is no hope to convince the rest of these ignorant fools.
Don’t be seduced by the short term gains of Rogue buffs. You don’t need this buff in order to succeed, and the price you’ll ultimately pay in long term rewarding gameplay for it is not worth the cheap thrills you’ll gain in the short term.
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I have a batch timer, it’s kinda op. Since batching is goin bye bye I’ll explain it.
As long as I execute an ability within the batch cycle, and align that with my energy tic I can pull off some really unfair stuff like reliable execution of vanish after CC to immune it.
There are kids who basically just get lucky because the classic batch window is truly massive, but usually they don’t unless they are duping a known thing like CL-ES with EM.
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Just face the fanfare, the last few OGs at blizzard fought for a boardroom presentation of the pirate servers running content for their millions of fans. They got the message saw the bucks and planned the big 3.
They listened to the forums at the time and gave a pretty accurate product. But the forums were wrong about a lot of things and I believe they quickly shut this into management mode and focuses on the next release. There will be updated models and no batching. The generations of gamers coming will not put up with the artificial lag. They need the flash they need the instant grat more than enjoying a grind.
I think it will only highlight those who can interrupt, and maybe side stepping and more spins will come back with arena combat. They would be wise to make the arena product watchable and not stale like classic pvp. The twitch views classic got sent a message.
Well, so far the patch notes don’t specifically state they are setting up at. 10 permanently.
I would like to see something fixed to accommodate for the way the present client and server work differently than the Vanilla.
Vanilla client used a substantial amount of client side computation to resolve actions and even do things like track your auto attack speed. That kinda of client side computation got hacked in TBC, likely earlier, but it was detected in TBC arena as cheating.
Any way because of how the client was handled in Vanilla some things were snappier in Vanilla than in Classic because even tho blizzard has indeed copied the Vanilla batch widow to the best of their abilities at 400ms the resolution of immediate action at the client side that existed before had a different feel, that Vanilla feel is present on some of the private servers (not all).
Classic is darn close as is in many ways, but sloppy in others, like how distance to a target or character position checking was done in Vanilla felt better even with the old bactching.
Perhaps a compromise could be achieved, batching of spells and such with 10ms on positioning and in/out of combat and that sort of thing that Vanilla handled better because of the client side processing. I am not able to say for certain what action was processed client side in Vanilla, but I know quite a bit was, and the rationale was back then distributed computing was the way to go because it made the servers less expensive to run. Also likely why batching could still feel really good in 04 on primitive broadband on a PentiumD or whatever it was. Literally can’t remember.
All the emphasis on making retail arena “more watchable” has, overly the course of several expansions, ruined the enjoyment in actually playing arena.
Repeating that kind of mistake in classic is depressing as hell. What are we even doing here if we’re going to completely disregard how vanilla and TBC actually worked when they were live and bring in a retail development mentality?
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druids pillar humping and exploiting hots and lifebloom is not fun to watch.
Your right, its why they made Dks with the deathgrip right after to try and make it even more entertaining. But deal with reality, they want to make money.
To my knowledge, most PvP private servers (which, for those who don’t know, are actually based on the wotlk era server since that is what was leaked outside of Blizzard) used something like a 250ms batch, as a compromise to preserve batching mechanics while improving the responsiveness a bit.
Anyway, I basically agree with you. Even if the 400ms is accurate to how it worked in vanilla, there are lots of other differences in both the client and server that can affect the performance of how that plays out.
The part that is alarming to me is setting the initial window to 10ms for this new patch. That signals a very concerning willingness to cave in to the ignorant mob and throw genuine vanilla / tbc mechanics totally out the window in order to appease players who are more used to retail.
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Classic, with batching, has been widely financially successful for Blizzard.
And NOBODY is canceling their subscription because once every 3 months their tank died to some stars aligning combination of getting crit, crushing, parry haste all on a single batch before any healer could respond. This isn’t actually slowing down any actually competent guilds, lmao. In the case of my guild personally, we have very good healers who have exceptional precognition and take care of these situations before the tank is even close to being within range to get globaled on a batch… it’s been months since I saw that happen, and even when it did once back in BWL we just brezzed him or had the next tank take over for the remainder of the encounter.
That people will use “well once per year my tank died and my spell went on CD but still didn’t save him” as an excuse to completely upend class balance, and throw original vanilla mechanics out the window to satisfy players used to retail, is utterly absurd.
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I HOPE blizzard classic keeps the line of communication open, hell I’d like them to actually open a dialogue on these kinds of things to truly refine the game to be more and more accurate mechanically.
If they could do that, extend and olive branch so to speak, and really get down into the mundane details where rogues and mages quite literally live, then I’d be excited for what comes next. Because the most frustrating thing is getting screwed in combat by broken mechanics that formerly worked a very specific way that is hard to reprogram into your head.
You know how it goes, you feel the tempo, and once you’re in rhythm it’s so obvious when stuff is broke.
Server populations speak for themselves regarding subs. Are you proud of your game time? I Just don’t understand your little pve raider story I don’t play that part of the game. Sounds like the batch should be like 10ms and you can get good or play your old guy on the first batch of legacy servers.
He’s not just a PvE raider I can assure you that.
I’ll have it known we do have our differences in opinion on many rogue things, but to the core of game play I feel we do see eye to eye on a lot.
Buddy I’ve put my heart and soul into WoW PvP for 16 years. I was raised on world of ming and neilyo videos. I came of age in BRM, Gulch, Nagrand Arena, Elemental Plateau, and Isle of Quel’danas. Where do you think my passion for this topic (the effects of batching on the skillcap of the Rogue class in PvP) comes from?
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