Just go on retail and play solo.
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Well how about we just remove all gear rewards from BG"s instead and make them purely cosmetic rewards. That way people can just play for fun in whatever version they enjoy. No need to worry about honor per hour or rep.
And no countdown queuing is not reliable, sorry.
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Yes. It is & was entirely reliable. Any disagreement to the point, outside of AV tells me you spent no time in bg’s during classic.
Still worked in tbcc. Still works in wrathc. Still works in retail.
Just stop.
It doesn’t work in any of them to the point you will have a guaranteed premade every time. You’ll get a chunk of your group in but it gets old fast when a couple people are almost always missed.
Tell me that you don’t know wtf you’re talking about, without actually saying it.
Here, let me dumb it down for you, even though I know it won’t help since you’re either cognitively impaired or an intentional contrarian.
The more bg instances that are running makes it less probable that you’ll get everyone into a group. Sod has far less bg instances running that classic did. Sod has an infinitesimally smaller population. This will further be the case when ab & av are patched in as players are now spread between multiple bg’s and not dog piled into the only one we have currently. Even then, at 60 on classic, it was very easy to make sure all 10 or 15 players for wsg or ab made it into the game. Attempting to deny that in any capacity is hard proof that you spent no real time there. At all.
/shrug you can go prove me wrong in wrath classic right now. Go play 10 games of WSG and let me know how many of them you manage to queue sync and get a all 10 people in.
Munches insignia as I continue to que in premades because I know how to have human interaction
Yeah it was so unfun i stopped doing BG’s all together, it’s okay to lose but when the game is 0/3 with 0 kills it’s not even fun and i’m there to make the other team ‘feel’ good about stomping yeah NO THANKS
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And it will not change regardless of any bg changes they do. That’s just how it’s always been. Sod is not “suddenly different”.
They will never accept that. Lols
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Yeah it is. It works the same way as the alliance AV discord from classic
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A giant discord is made with 300+ voice channels
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Players q up solo or with a group of players count down q in discord
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When your game pops, you go to the voice chat room that matches your game number
POOF! Solo q destroyed
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Okay sure we’re using the term queue sync differently.
But either way you won’t be able to guarantee the exact 10 people in your team, even if you do manage to get all of them in discord which is still not guaranteed.
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I attack the way you seem to willfully ignore the spirit of how a game should function and pretend people who get upset by the current state of WSG have unreasonable expectations, then you ask a red herring question that seems spiteful in nature. (asking people if they are prepared to try to win what is objectively an unfair match up)
since Dec 9th until I got tired of the awful pvp balance(game release was 7th iirc)
90% of my games have been solo que
I don’t do EVERYTHING I would do in a “fair match” when faced with a premade. I will not use(waste of gold) FAPs, or try to win the mid battle after the first loss, I usually go for one flag and then when it’s clearly over I don’t push people to pretend it isn’t over. If I ever saw a team continuing to try to win the mid battle I would engage, but I won’t take a bad engagement which typically means I am sitting and waiting for a long time.
(I won’t jump down from gy into 2 paladins, 3 priests, 3 hunters, and 2 druids)
I have afk’d out many times when seeing a premade. I would afk out and farm for 15 mins then reque.
Are you trying to imply that wanting to farm exalted for the bracers makes people disingenuous? I wouldn’t play this game PERIOD if I couldn’t get shiny items.
This is your first disingenuous and gaslighty questions. “DO YOU SWEAR PALADIN THAT YOU WILL SERVE NO MATTER THE COST NO MATTER THE ODDS”
No, I do not swear. I pay money for a service; I want a decent shot at winning and at least a minor sense that my loss was within my control.
Let’s take your logic and run with it, you walk into a movie theater and get assigned to a movie that is 10 hours of nails on a chalkboard, you decide to walk out. You’re unironically a quitter in the same way as people who see the crappy game ahead of them and check out.
There is “making the best of a situation” and then there is the prospect of spending 3 hours a night being teabagged by someone who has 3 healers and otherwise is clearly a far worse player than you.
You can have a different opinion, but I really have to challenge you to stay grounded to earth or at least admit you are being kind of ridiculous here.
If I que up for dota 2 and get a 7500 MMR team I’m not going to insult my own intelligence and pretend I don’t already know what’s about to happen.
Premades don’t even have to be good, the composition of a team and the lvl 25 imbalances make SO MUCH of a difference right now that any chance of winning is extremely slim, and losing over and over when you give a genuine effort is demotivating.
Not you in particular, but one of the go-to’s is to accuse people of being bad and that somehow means they deserve to lose over and over again.
The premade I was in won every single game until we faced a stronger composition, it wasn’t ONLY because of that, IMO. But there was no CCing 3 priests and their melee cleave (paladins) zugged us down.
There was one PUG who beat us in the initial mid battle, and then by virtue of healing being incredibly overtuned and based on brute forcing it we recovered momentum and won. I would say those players individually had more skill than my team, and lost anyways.
My point is you calling them “just a trade chat pug” is like you saying “it’s only a million dollars”, instead of trying to imply there is no tactical advantage to a premade, even a trade chat premade is a weird expenditure of energy when you could skip all the steps in the middle and just look at the winrate of premades.
That comes off as a large bias in my eyes.
You believe a substantial number of the people who take the time to make a group are also the least mature or least sportsmanly? Maybe, but what are you trying to prove besides attacking their character here?
Okay you believe a premade isn’t a huge advantage, about 99% of the population disagrees with you, some defend the merits of it, some attack the design of not separating them, very few people say they don’t increase your chances of winning significantly.
My VERY FIRST wsg was at lvl 22 vs 7 lvl 25 hunters on Dec 9th, you literally couldn’t leave your base or a hunter would use 3% of their mana and send a pet to kill you.
3 healers is like 25,000 extra hp, composition is KING if the other factors are even remotely close.
And other people do not think it is OK for a game that offers a certain type of experience not to deliver on that experience. The odd thing is, against premades, doing nothing is actually more productive sometimes because it lets you get into a game where your choices can matter again, where you get back to a feeling/reality of agency.
You don’t seem like you have bad intentions but you seem to willfully ignore some very common sense contexts here.
Strawman, WSG is a 10 player vs 10 player game. Surely you don’t mind if the people who want to vote with their feet leave you to enjoy your premade while they go have fun their own way with their own toys?
You get to play against 10 other friends who all want to play together.
It wouldn’t matter, let me explain:
And also I am just talking about a hypothetical scenario. Let’s say- blizzard now only allows you to q as BGs solo. No more grouping
What will happen is that gigantic discord will be made, with multiple countdown channels and 300+ bg channels.
The discord is spammed on Reddit, forums, every server discord in NA, guild discords, pvp discords, etc.
Even if you don’t get your 10 in, you will still join the voice call of everyone in your Bg. You don’t even need all 10 in voice.
This is what premaders will do if they eliminated group q just as an example. This discord would completely circumvent the changes and now nobody can tell who’s a premade and who isn’t until the battle starts at mid. It will be very clear then.
And yes, its participation will be very high. Classic AV alliance was our proof.
What’s the part of: “You always need to group up and not in a puggable way, to get end game gear in retail”, that you don’t understand?
It’s almost like he doesn’t acknowledge that both of these things happen even still to this day in ashran, wg, av, and ioc for retail, not often, only the first week of a new expansion when it’s outside the realm of fun to do so, and it’s so infrequent as a consequence because normal bg’s have been neutered such that they’ve been 100% irrelevant for eight, arguably all nine expansions.
The very remnants of hydra & avengers reincarnated however many times over now? Ever since discord groups faction specific for this very purpose existed.
I’m skeptical if a BG of 40 people would have the same participation rate as a 10 or 15 man bg. A raid setting is very different, and is far less intimate. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but there is a distinct difference. I know a lot of people that aren’t going to join a WSG and let someone talk down to them or otherwise just silently follow orders. AV is mob mentality and they are all pushing in 1 direction with 1 strategy.
Well, personally I’d rather that than people staying and berating teammates or just not trying. If you’re going to be a quitter, I don’t personally think you should even be queuing, but at least you have the sense to leave, and not further drag your team down.
I think that there are genuinely a lot of people who don’t care at all about the BG, and just want rep, so sure there are people who are queuing BGs just to farm rep. I see that as problematic, because that’s likely in no small part a reason why we see people thinking it’s OK to join a BG and not actively try their best to win.
I’ve stated what my thoughts are on this. Sure composition can give a premade an advantage. To what degree depends on the pug, but typically a premade will have a considerable composition advantage over a random pug that may not even have any healers. That isn’t to say that a pug without healers stands no chance against a premade with a good composition.
Sure. I could definitely see cases where everything else being relatively equal or close enough, team composition could definitely be a deciding factor. Oftentimes though, there’s so much else going on that focusing on the BG objectives, peeling, cc’ing, and actually running the flag, can really win games, esp. against average tradechat premades that are not very well coordinated.
I’m not quite sure what you’re asking here. If you’re asking whether I think that most premades are tradechat premades that don’t use comms, then yes that’s exactly what I think. I don’t even think it’s close, like maybe 100 premades don’t use comms to 1 that does, and I don’t think that voice comms is that helpful for teams of people who are not very good anyway, or aren’t trying.
That you said you use FAPs is surprising to me. I do not think most people use consumables, and I sure don’t think that most premades are very coordinated. Of course, I could be wrong! My assumptions and biases are based on my own experiences, as I suspect other people’s are as well. If your experiences with premades have only been tryhard premades, maybe that’s what you think all premades are like.
My biases could be due to the vast majority of my SoD premade experience being in no-comms premades that beat most, if not all other premades we face.
If other factors are close, sure. And yeah, a 3 healer premade vs a no healer pug definitely has a significant composition advantage to the extent that composition is advantageous. The pug has to have some pretty good players, and maybe luck as well, but it’s quite possible that the premade is a no-comms tradechat group and they will fall apart if the pug caps on them.
Honestly, I think this is the hard part. From my perspective, you say things like, “You’re sealioning,” and I’m trying hard to imagine that maybe you’re someone who happens to have legitimately queued into 10 straight premades, while I’m someone who has legitimately queued into 10 straight pugs, so neither of us believe each other. It’s impossible to know if you’re lying or telling the truth, but you’re name-calling, so that doesn’t help.
I know what my own experiences are. And I 100% stand behind my statement of:
Anyone who says that they just want to enjoy BGs, but doesn’t give it their best and quits (at least if you’re /afking out it’s not actively dragging your team town, but still) should not be queuing PVP Battlegrounds. It’s a PVP Battleground, what do you expect? I see the exact same behavior from some players regardless of whether there are premades involved or not, and I do find that to be problematic.
Yeah, but that’s a different story from wanting to queue BGs because you like BGs. That’s wanting a reward and not caring at all about anything else, imo.
I don’t mind separating premades, removing solo queues, or whatever else. I don’t like the idea of catering to people who throw and I think the community will be worse off for it, but I absolutely do not want to be forced to accept people who give up, throw and/or berate their teammates on my team. I want to be able to exclude them from being able to play with me.
Anyway…
Thanks for coming back and answering the questions. I noticed you said something like, “I’ll answer later. I have DND now.” and I thought, “Sure you will.” And you did! So, that’s cool.
Why are you skeptical?
As long as players need honor and rep, they are going to play any bg they need to.
It is also way easier to herd people into a 10 or 15 man battleground than it is a 40 man
A lot of times when you see “an av premade” in game, it is almost certainly only 20-25 people
Premaders will premade no matter what. If they have to use discord to do it so be it. They want the group structured or at the very least organized
If you remove grouping period, the recoil would be so insane I can’t even imagine Twitter.
They will kill the solo q only change using discord regardless of bg.
People are not going to suddenly go “well guess I’ll solo q to rank14!” After premading the entire time
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You don’t and there should be a premade que for the chance that somehow you do.
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