Premades have completely ruined the PvP BG experience. Do something already

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

@Holycow-uldaman

I’m not familiar with the multi-boxing stuff, so I’ll just stick to the premade raiding topic.

The Blizzard PvP devs have explained they don’t want premade raids in random bgs. It’s unfair to the other players and it drives them away from PvP.

This message has been completely undercut by the lack of bans and CS saying it’s ok to keep trying to circumvent the premade size restriction.

Blizzard PvP devs: “We don’t want premade raids in random bgs. They’re ruining bgs for other players and driving them away from PvP.”

Blizzard CS: “It’s ok if you keep trying to circumvent the premade size restriction though.”

Now, we see that epic bgs are being overrun by premade raids. Not only is it frequent roflstomps, but many other games are also ruined because one team starts half-empty due to a premade raid mass dropping queue pops in their attempts to circumvent the system.

Although PvP (especially random bgs) is low priority for Blizzard, we’d like to raise awareness about this worsening problem and suggest some solutions.

True a clarification would be nice and the lack of consistency is a glaring, ongoing issue that has to be resolved in a manner that is congruent.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

Well, about 5 years after his twitter posts, we get official word that queueing at the same time as someone else, using voice chat never has been against the rules.

[Shadybolt-thrall]

@Ratherin-crusader-strike

But until you can provide me a reasonable explanation for why “we took action on automated queueing because it impacts the game for other players and disrupts gameplay” is not applicable to “manual queueing should be actioned because it impacts the game for other players and disrupts gameplay,” then your point is moot lol

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

They even used the same justification for banning input mirroring:

@Kaivax

We find that, like full automation of play, multiple-account mirroring disturbs the gameplay experience for the vast majority of players who control a single account at a time.

@Vrakthris

To be clear though, queuing at the same time as someone else isn’t considered cheating.

If they are using other means to do so, that might be, but basically going… “One, two, click!” has never been.

Here’s your answer:
They aren’t the same, and pretending that they are isn’t an argument. The end.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

@Ratherin-crusader-strike

ou can explain the rules all you want.

But until you can provide me a reasonable explanation for why “we took action on automated queueing because it impacts the game for other players and disrupts gameplay” is not applicable to “manual queueing should be actioned because it impacts the game for other players and disrupts gameplay,” then your point is moot lol

Yeah there is no sound, logical explanation that I have seen so far. We are all waiting still…

[Nobully-blackrock (Nobully)]

@Ratherin-crusader-strike

They didn’t take action on automated queueing because it was automated; they did so because it impacted the game.

which one of these things isn’t permitted:

• automation
• playing with friends

wait wait.

let me make it easier.

one of these things is not like the other,
one of these things just doesn’t belong.
can you tell me which thing is not like the other,
by the time i’m finished my song.

does that help make it any easier?

automation isn’t permitted.

playing with friends, is.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

Playing with more than five friends has never been allowed in BGs.

Face it you lost the narrative again.

[Ayukama-frostmourne]

@Holycow-uldaman

they don’t want premade raids in random bgs.

First of all, they never said they don’t want premade groups in random battlegrounds, they said they invite those players to other modes of PVP. They have never said “they never want.”

[Evilira-barthilas]

@Mafic-emerald-dream

Playing with more than five friends has never been allowed in BGs.

Really? Because…

@Vrakthris

To be clear though, queuing at the same time as someone else isn’t considered cheating.

If they are using other means to do so, that might be, but basically going… “One, two, click!” has never been.

And that’s literally what we do. 3… 2…1… go.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

@Adroi-tichondrius

That isn’t the same thing as stacking a BG with 30+ people.

Blizzard removed the ability to queue as a raid. It’s incredibly safe to say that this type of play isn’t intended. Based on that, communities stacking a bg by queueing a bunch of 5 mans at the same time is clearly working to circumvent that.

BlizZard will over look it to an extent but when it disrupts multiple games they might have to step in.

[Nobully-blackrock (Nobully)]

@Mafic-emerald-dream

Playing with more than five friends has never been allowed in BGs.

even though everyone has linked blue posts stating otherwise.

@Mafic-emerald-dream

Face it you lost the narrative again.

the narrative was clearly laid out in blue and white.

your refusal to accept it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist,

[Ratherin-crusader-strike]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

They used the same explanation for the multi-boxing change (which still explicitly allows multi-boxing), and only bans automating the process.

The multi-boxing argument is extremely bad, and makes you look willfully ignorant about the issue at hand at best, and completely uninformed and incapable of understanding what the issue actually is at worst.

In the event of multiboxing, the software was the issue. Using software gave players a monumental advantage in the game. With multiboxing, the exploit was the software. Multiboxing in and of itself is not an exploit. It’s just one person playing multiple accounts which, if you can do, then good on you lol

Automated queueing is not an exploit. It is a means of using an exploit that exists within the game. In the current discussion at hand, the exploit exists within the game, and people are using that exploit to circumvent systems and walls that Blizzard has specifically put in to halt people from entering randoms with premade raid groups. Automated queueing and manual queueing are both sides of the same coin, the only difference being that automated queueing removes the need for players to count backwards from three.

@Nobully-blackrock

playing with friends, is.

Then maybe Blizzard should make it so that you can queue premade raid groups into randoms rather than having you circumvent the system in place preventing you from doing that lol

WoW players are so silly.

[Holycow-uldaman]

@Ayukama-frostmourne

they never said they don’t want premade groups in random battlegrounds

Is this like a semantics thing?

Blizzard explained how premade raids harm the PvP community:
https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/7200052820-joinbattlefield-post-51-part-2/

The ultimate effect that this kind of queuing has had is to drive players away from PvP. Perhaps it’s been a long time since you’ve been in a random group, but a lot of players will see that they’re up against a premade and simply quit. At best, they suffer through it. To an extent premade groups count on this.

Pre-mades in the normal queue, however they are formed, are not something that we’ve ever been particularly fond of.

---

---

Someone asked the head PvP dev on Twitter:

Do you dislike just premades greater than 5 people, or you dislike even 5 people grouped into a random BG?

https://twitter.com/holinka/status/312067433181618176

Premades larger than 5 people. Anything that deliberately circumvents the in-game constraints

(^ He deleted his old tweets.)

[Ratherin-crusader-strike]

@Holycow-uldaman

Is this like a semantics thing?

It is 100% a semantics thing lol

This is all they have

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

The problem here for your argument that 5 is a hard limit (aside from the blue post saying you’re perfectly fine to do it manually), is that it’s theoretically possible for it to happen without queue syncing, or players trying to force it.

Its entirely possible to unintentionally end up in a BG with 6 people other you already know, by effectively random chance. Unless that is, you think that queueing up at the same time more than 4 other guildies are online is an exploit.

[Ayukama-frostmourne]

Still doesn’t mean they are not wanted.

[Holycow-uldaman]

@Ayukama-frostmourne

Still doesn’t mean they are not wanted

If that’s your interpretation after reading Blizzard’s explanation that premade raids harm the PvP community…

[Mikoshi-illidan (Mikoshi)]

@Gäd-wyrmrest-accord

I am saying that it is not possible to jump into RANDOM battle grounds in a group more than 5.

The only place you can do that is in classic.

Cordinating queue pops and such is not exploiting or against the TOS.

Amazing.

“It’s not possible for more than 5 to queue into the same random battleground”

But also

“If me and my discord community are coordinating queues to guarantee we all get in the same random battleground, this isn’t a problem”

It will never cease to impress me how boldly people will defend exploits on the forums. Saw the same nonsense with multibotters vehemently defending their behavior right up until it became functionally against ToS.

[Mafic-emerald-dream (Mafic)]

@Ratherin-crusader-strike

Then maybe Blizzard should make it so that you can queue premade raid groups into randoms rather than having you circumvent the system in place preventing you from doing that lol

WoW players are so silly.

They can not face the truth that the party is coming to an end.

[Ayukama-frostmourne]

No, you’re misinterapting what they are saying. They have said, they are not fond of premades in BG’s, and wish for those who do to try out other PVP Modes. Does not mean they are not wanted in random battlegrounds.

But Blizzard also made the stance pretty clear too on this. They can not do anything about this, as long as the players are not using any addons or ways of automation to do it.

[Ratherin-crusader-strike]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

Its entirely possible to unintentionally end up in a BG with 6 people other you already know, by effectively random chance

Okay, but we aren’t talking about random chance? We are specifically talking about people intentionally exploiting a system and dropping queues, which impedes on the player experience.

This is an illogical point to make.