It’s just knowing the people that run them and continuously seeing them.
9,000+ played.
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There’s a certain amount of coordination you can anticipate from a pug.
Then there’s seeing near-perfect execution of the exact same strategy you’ve seen in the BG for the fourth time this weekend and you look at the enemy team and you recognize the same 15, 20 names in there you see in half your games.
Once again there’s this really strange tendency of PVP’ers to try and excuse away absolutely abhorrent behavior as, “LOL YOU’RE JUST MAD YOU KEEP LOSING!” as though you’re entitled to have fun at the expense of other players.
And the funny part? FFXIV doesn’t have this problem. Premade groups only fight premade groups. Gear and abilities are standardized. Mods are banned so actual player skill is what matters. Square Enix realized the blistering edge PVPer doesn’t actually matter that much so most content is made with casual encounters in mind. It’s fun for most people instead of having to deal with WoW PVPers who try to justify having over 15 people in a premade group fighting a complete pug.
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How is this better than all the other ideas to stop premades and make the fights more balanced first? I don’t really see how it fixes anything, and I see far more ways for it to be exploited for win trading.
This just screams unintended consequences.
Then implementing these fixes won’t hurt a thing, so why not be sure?
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It’s two fold.
You have the people abusing it saying that, but you also have the PvE player who has no idea and just says “PvP happened.”
As if unintended PvP premades are that. It’s an uphill battle.
It’s a good approach. In the end, casual PvP is what gets players into competitive PvP. If random PvP is bad, less players get into ranked PvP.
It has been posted many times here that they view having more than 5 people in a group joining a bg, specifically Asharn, is unfair. Doing something that makes a game unfair is listed in the CoC as cheating.
It’s from 2012, but it was plainly unfair and they banned raids from bgs. They have not said specifically that queuing together and dropping over and over again until you get a certain number in is cheating. They simply described the general idea of what that gets you…ie an unfair bg experience.
As has been said several times, they need to clarify here because they have not. They have conflicting posts over the years. Ok to 1 2 3 click, but not ok to get more than 5 together by itself makes no sense as the only reason to do that is in fact to get something they deemed unfair.
The logic is all there, but in different parts spread out over so long without responses that it made a mess. Blizzard should clarify the mess they made, and pay attention to the simple health of the BGs and Epic BGs.
Even if they said we think this is fine, they would still have a problem because quite a few seem to think it isn’t. Very few if any have said “games against premades are so much fun!”. We have a situation that comes from two very big issues.
Unhappy customers
Lack of communication from the company selling a product.
It needs fixing.
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This kind of says it all. This is the casual PvP mode. Allowing the level of coordination they do makes it no longer for casuals or people learning. It makes it a killing field for people who play a very different way and spend a ton more time. It’s like throwing a casual softball work league against pros for money. It’s only fun for the winner and that’s not a good casual game no matter how you cut it.
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Well, let’s put it in wow terms. 
It’s LFR up against a Mythic raid group and we’re seeing who can kill the boss first. It’s obvious to everyone, but the ‘mythic’ raid group is trying to argue its fair.
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Pretty much.
There’s clearly an issue here even if you can’t define it as an exploit or cheating.
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It’s also worth mentioning that Blizzard’s banned people for doing WAY LESS than deliberately bypassing restrictions on party size for epic BG’s. It is wild to see people sit here and say, “OH YOU GOT A SOURCE FOR THAT ONE!?” like it’s some redditor argument. No, dummy, go look at the game. Can you queue as a raid? No? The limit’s five people? So you’re exploiting the system? And you’re doing it at the expense of other players?
Blizzard banned raiders for accidentally finding Blizzard’s own error in ICC heroic back in the day. That one had plausible deniability AND it was actually Blizzard’s fault they hadn’t caught an oversight.
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Or even more, do you really think an LFR group can do Mythic lvl mechanics? That is what this is asking of the PUG.
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Why do you need a post explicitly saying it lol
They’ve taken action on this sort of thing in the past. They removed to ability to group as a raid and they took action on automated queueing, specifying then that they had done so because it gave players an unfair advantage in PvP and that, if players wanted to coordinate larger groups, they could do rated instead.
Whether it’s automated queueing or manual queueing, the intent is the same as is the impact, and Blizzard’s movement on one but not the other demonstrates an inconsistency on their part; something exacerbated by the blue post everyone seems to hinge their arguments on.
Convinced at this point that most people in this thread are just being contrarians on the matter, because since when have we ever acted like something Blizzard says is absolute and shouldn’t be pushed back on in the slightest lol
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Partial premades falls into a gray area with BlizZard. They tend to not be as disruptive as full 40 man premades that disrupt the games they are in and also the games they didn’t queue into.
Partial premades do not have that scale of impact.
It is like a world PVP battle out in the world that is a small skirmish isn’t going to disrupt a server. But if a raid shows up with other raids it will start to impact the server.
Isn’t it great? They’ll tell you to post your feedback on GD, and then turn around and continuously ask why someone bothered posting their feedback on GD.
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I mean, I’m fine with people disagreeing, but when their disagreement is basically “Yeah well this is what Blizzard said so you’re wrong,” as if Blizzard can’t be wrong about something and even when there’s precedent for them taking action on this matter, then I think people are just being contrarians for the sake of disagreement.
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The GMs tell us to post on the forums so this is what we will do.
It is our duty to provide feedback on forums.
You are a valued member of the WoW community by the way.
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Yup! Worst part is seeing people just keep dogpiling “it’s always been like that! grow up” when the thread is asking for change. Definitely not productive to be contrarian.
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You’d think the greens would understand that instead of trying to shout people down all the time. Meh.
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What happened to the community council?
We are one month away from near disaster of a launch and they are silent. Why?
Because they get ignored as much as we do.
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