Premades have completely ruined the PvP BG experience. Do something already

[Kaledin-uther]

@Holycow-uldaman

I don’t know how many games their members usually get each night. It might be around 3.

I think it is far more than that right now. Can’t have perfect be the enemy of the good, and queue drop penalties will help.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Kaledin-uther

Do you think when he said this last line that he only meant if you got around the queue limit via add on?

Yes.

Because that’s the only way it makes sense with the rest of the post to a reasonable reader.

[Kaledin-uther]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

Yes.

Because that’s the only way it makes sense with the rest of the post to a reasonable reader.

Thank you for putting a nail in the coffin of the idea you are being intellectually honest. The last nail but thanks. When people are so blatant about ignoring things that don’t fit their idea it makes it easier. Good bye.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Kaledin-uther

Thank you for putting a nail in the coffin of the idea you are being intellectually honest.

That’s incredibly rich coming from you.

It is the only way it makes sense in the context of the 2012 posts. Queue up and hope: fine. Queue up with an addon to guarantee it works: no. What other interpretation is there that’s consistent with all the actual words in the post, not the words you want to be in the post, or only the parts you agree with?

I get you’ve known what you want the answer to be before the thread started, and will find away to make stuff support that answer.

[Holycow-uldaman]

@Cäpslöck-proudmoore

Queue up and hope: fine. Queue up with an addon to guarantee it works: no.

Premade raiders are just manually doing what the addon did. They can drop queues and requeue until they get synced queue pops too. It’s as guaranteed as the addon.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Holycow-uldaman

Premaders are just manually doing what the addon did.

Which is fine.

Manually casting fireball: fine.
addon casting fireball for you: not fine.

It really is that simple.

[Holycow-uldaman]

You seem to miss the main point. Blizzard PvP devs aren’t fine with premade raids in random bgs. They were trying to stop that behavior.

[Adroi-tichondrius]

It’s funny… did a bit more digging for old times sake and found some more Yesuna threads.

Multiboxing positivity

Multiboxers usually catch a lot of flak and hate here on the forum by the community, not nearly as much inside the game but we still catch it there too. I’ve yet to see a thread that gives a positive light to us, and lets be honest… many times we aren’t the most polite when we do have to defend our way of playing the game to other players since many times we are blamed for botting and cheating. I think it’s due time we have a little bit of a positive light thrown in our direction for once. Befo…

It’s basically the same thing. Same type of arguments.

Continuing the discussion from Multi boxing is fine eh?:

@Yesuna-wyrmrest-accord

Here we go again.

yes, multiboxing is fine.

@Yesuna-wyrmrest-accord

No need. I know what multiboxing is. It’s fine, Blizzard also thinks it’s fine.

Same talking heads dismissed the problem.

@Grumbles-hellscream

So PVP happened?

Then it’s blaming the people that made the complaint.

So not only was multiboxing good for the economy, good for PvP… but it was good for the game! lol

You can’t make this stuff up. Thankfully the majority spoke up and the problem was fixed.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

It seems easy enough… just make it so you can only solo queue for unrated content.

[Holycow-uldaman]

@Primalmatter-stormrage

just make it so you can only solo queue for unrated content.

These premade raids would be willing to sync queue 30+ “solo” players.

[Primalmatter-stormrage (Primalmatter)]

So? they wouldnt be able to control team comps

[Snowpine-ghostlands]

@Adroi-tichondrius

You can’t make this stuff up. Thankfully the majority spoke up and the problem was fixed.

@Vrakthris

Let me be clear. There is no rule against logging into multiple WoW licenses that you are registered to. It isn’t against policy.

Multiboxing, or playing multiple World of Warcraft accounts at once, is not a violation of our End User License Agreement. Please note, however, that use of all software or hardware mechanisms used to mirror commands to multiple World of Warcraft accounts at the same time, or to automate or streamline multiboxing in any way may result in account penalties.

https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/24258#:~:text=Multiboxing%2C%20or%20playing%20multiple%20World,our%20End%20User%20License%20Agreement.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

Perhaps a more apt comparison is multi-boxing.

You’re explicitly allowed to do it manually, but software to streamline the process is explicitly not OK.

[Holycow-uldaman]

Blizzard broke the premade raid addon because they don’t want premade raids in random bgs. The PvP devs explained how premade raids harm the PvP community.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

Blizzard changed the rule that you’re no longer allowed to use 3rd party software to assist in your multi-boxing setups. As a result, fewer people multi-boxed.

It’s still allowed if you do it the manual way.

[Snowpine-ghostlands]

They also said it’s been addressed, not that queueing at the same time is against the rules.

Every instance of specifically addressing going “1, 2, 3, queue” has been “it’s allowed.”

But again. If the goal is to improve PvP, you’re not going to do it by trying to force blame on a certain number of players. Blizzard knows this, that’s why they don’t try to socially engineer people in this way; they squash what problems they can, and systemically adapt their systems.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

@Snowpine-ghostlands

If the goal is to improve PvP, you’re not going to do it by trying to force blame on a certain number of players.

At this point, I’m getting more convinced that the whining is a bigger problem than the pre-mades are.

[Snowpine-ghostlands]

I tried multiple times to get any ounce of genuine progress out of Adroi. He literally could not stop himself from continuing the discussion about exploit vs not, even when I called him out in the posts he replied to.

Despite knowing what I was accusing him of, he did it again, and then was surprised I stopped.

@Snowpine-ghostlands

@Adroi-tichondrius

Look man, you intentionally mischaracterized what I said and didn’t retract it.

I’ll give you a chance to explain it, then.

Why are you referring to them as cheaters, ad nauseum, despite the prospect being nebulous at best, wrong at worst?

Don’t drag this into a semantics war over what ‘cheaters’ means, and be honest that there are conflicting reports about whether or not it’s an exploit - generally trending toward: Not an exploit, unless aided by third party (addon or otherwise.)

If you can address that without the semantics war you’ve been engaging in for the past week, I’ll apologize for ‘mischaracterizing.’ If you cannot, I will accept my W and give my rightful “I told you so” to Ravenas.

And just to clarify. I can still say “yeah this sucks, and I’m sorry for you” without agreeing that they’re exploiting or cheating. The game design can suck. The decisions Blizzard makes or doesn’t make can suck. I’m never going to blame players for operating under those conditions they didn’t create.

@Adroi-tichondrius

@Snowpine-ghostlands

I’ll give you a chance to explain it, then.

Why are you referring to them as cheaters, ad nauseum, despite the prospect being nebulous at best, wrong at worst?

Don’t drag this into a semantics war over what ‘cheaters’ means, and be honest that there are conflicting reports about whether or not it’s an exploit - generally trending toward: Not an exploit, unless aided by third party (addon or otherwise.)

I have clarified this. They are cheating the system. This system at one time allowed for raids to join. Now it doesn’t.

Take words at their most basic definition. This isn’t a game of semantics. This is such a joke man. Words have meaning. Because you don’t like how I’m using the word doesn’t change that.

Cheating: act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.

That’s what they are doing. They are acting unfairly to gain an advantage.

This is what the CoC says. Blizzard’s words.

engaging in any activity that grants an unfair advantage is considered cheating.

This is mind boggling. It’s right there. ANY ACTIVITY. Any. How is that not clear? How is this not cheating?

The problem here is that YOU have an idea of what cheating is and isn’t. I clearly have a different idea. Looking at Blizzard’s own rules it’s clear to me, yet you’re arguing about it.

It’s actually insane how even in the midst of predicting it, it happens. You’d think at bare minimum the gift of foresight would have made him give one genuine response. But I got zero.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Holycow-uldaman

Blizzard PvP devs aren’t fine with premade raids in random bgs

Citation please because the Blue posts disagree

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

Blizzard makes the rules. Random forum posters do not. And their opinions do not matter as to the enforcement of the rules. Only blizzard’s opinion matters.

If Blizzard say (as they repeatedly have) that manually queueing up at the same time via “1, 2, 3, go” in voice comms is fine, then it just is. period. end of story.