There are multiple blue posts that disagree with you.
Again multiple blue posts saying that is not correct.
Your feelings dont change facts.
You not agreeing doesnt make me a troll
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Like bots, win trading, gold farming…all things against the rules they haven’t stopped. Hell trolling on the forums and swapping characters to harass people on the list. Failure to do something does not equal intent or want for it to happen.
It can be actually. If you just follow someone around and constantly badger them it is still trolling even if you are right. You don’t seem to be here, but even if you were you can troll someone with a true argument.
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Which are all banned routinely. Which you’ve been told about many times now. How many people have been banned for being in a premade? It’s 0.
Point me to any rule that says it’s trolling to pick apart someone’s terrible arguments. So far, you’ve shown that you don’t actually know what the rules are, so I need an exact citation here.
But that’s not the point you made. You said they haven’t done anything about it so it means they want it. That is just not true. Why they haven’t is a question, but it doesn’t in anyway imply they are fine with it. It most likely implies neglect.
Didn’t say it was…said it could be. Keep up.
Nope, you’ve failed to read properly again. That’s not what I said. I said if blizzard DIDN’T WANT IT, they would’ve done something about it, like they do for other things they DON’T WANT, like bots.
That’s not how Blizzard has operated with anything else. When they don’t want something in their games, they do something about it.
Take your own advice and read things.
Still waiting for your citation here. I guess you’ve realized that it doesn’t exist, right? That’s because no such rule exists and you made it up.
Illogical, and not worth my time. Good bye
Hehe, uhm, yeah that’s what I said. You are trying to say that Blizzards lack of stopping it means they want it. That is not how not stopping something works. There are many reasons people don’t stop a thing even if they don’t want it to happen.
lack of ability
cost to stop vs reward
push from customers
Lack of stopping something does not imply intent. The last direct comment on it says they do not want more than 5 people in a raid. They seem fine with queue syncing because they can’t do anything about it.
The idea that not stopping someone from doing something means you like it is pretty creepy dude. That is back to victim blaming only now you are blaming Blizzard. That is don’t go down a dark street alone if you don’t want to get mugged talk. It doesn’t mean anyone wants to get mugged. They just FAILED to stop it.
Well that isn’t true at all. They realized too late that flying was a mistake. Tons of devs are on the record stating it, yet, they left it in.
Everything has a cost, and sometimes it’s not worth paying. They don’t always act.
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No one cares about your “forum hero” posts.
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If that’s how folks are doing it, then sure. Try to make that distinction, report 'em, report the addon. That’s always an option. I don’t think that they’d do anything unless it is an addon that automatically handles information and simultanously use said information across multiple accounts, since that’d be a form of automation.
Which is against the ToS.
But this idea of “I have an addon therefore it must be against ToS” is also not correct. You can legitimately send information to other players via addons. As long as they aren’t peer-to-peer (which I believe is the only way that this type of an addon would be categorized as an exploit as that would use an in-game measure to circumvent an in-game system), it’d be difficult to make the claim that they do anything against ToS.
It is possible though, and if Blizzard views this bizarre distinction as an exploit … then sure. At which point I’d just make the change to everything I said and exclude addons, as my point would still remain the same. Which is why I don’t see a reason to argue about it.
If Blizzard determines that an addon is against ToS then it is Blizzard who will change something about the game to break it. The mere useage of an addon is still not an exploit unless it does something it likely isn’t supposed to be able to do from in-game.
I’m not a coder so I can’t properly explain it but the way I would put it is like this: all addons that rely on out-of-the-game information are built as to be regularly updated. If it can take a signal from outside of the game and function in-game then that’d be an exploit. But that’s literally it. Otherwise if an addon is “not supposed to be doing that” which is a distinction that is 110% arbitrarily decided by Blizzard (even if in 99.99% of all cases it makes sense why) … and that’s just how it works.
Common sense.
If you use your common sense and focus on “I am not going to purposefully or willfully offend or ruin the game for others”, then you are fine.
In weird cases they may provide a blue post update but those are rare … especially now’a’days because so many of those edge cases have been settled for so long. See again why the blue post from 2007 has only been affirmed and not refuted as an example.
Look, I’m gonna put it like this:
I have an antagonistic view towards this subject … because it can be debated. But not like this. The reality is that there’s some fundamental issues that are neigh on impossible to avoid to rebuild system-level mechanics of the game. If one tries to attack premades ability to queue together, you do end up attacking everyone’s ability to queue not just together but at all.
The “fixes” that has been suggested for these things aren’t even fixes. Just take the post that Arrow thought was a good argument:
That is the full context of what Daxxarri said: “Pre-mades in the normal queue, however they are formed, are not something that we’ve ever been particularly fond of.”
Why? Because premade groups CAN be disruptive but that they ALWAYS provide an advantage over a non-premade group.
Sounds like an argument in favour of it? Here’s the problem: should it be a bannable offense to play with friends at all? Ignoring the whole premade-premades thing but … if playing with a premade at all provides you with an unfair advantage, should it be a bannable offense to play with friends?
From a PvP perspective … yes. Why? Because the game itself doesn’t really matter, just the actual player versus player aspect. But WoW is a MMO, it has to look out for the game’s overall health.
When looking at other dedicated PvP games like League or DotA there are restrictions on when you can play with premades, because it can create unfair environments.
But those restrictions basically never exist in non-rated environments.
The quote itself where Daxxarri is annoyed at premades, just like the OP of this thread, is an argument FOR premades and more of them … as long as it is unranked. That’s the point. When looking at threads like these with actual deductive and logical reasoning and examples, the opposite conclusion is literally the ONLY logical conclusion that can be made.
Epic BGs aren’t ranked so … the idea that they should be scrutinized as if they were is an absurd notion. This entire thread and so many like it is literally self-defeating, because it creates a false premise and then continues to pretend like as if it is true.
Epic BGs aren’t ranked, so the idea of even discussing ranked environments is irrelevant. Meaning that the only thing that matters is discussing it from the game’s overall health perspective, and WoW is a MMO. Not a PvP lobby game, even if some play it as such. Because of this playing with premades is a feature and not a flaw. But it has to have some base-level balancing that can be circumvented as long as it doesn’t actively break or exploit something in-game.
Topics like these can and should be discussed. But they can’t on a forum like this. To really discuss it you’d have to hold a conference with several senior games developers and game designers that have like 10-20 years of experience and listen to what they have found out about player psychology, game categorization, genre definitions, acceptable losses and exclusions, and so many other elements like that.
Because that and more is what it would take to actually divulge anything of value in regards to a topic like this. Because it ain’t a simple one, which is why sticking to official stances from Blizzard is far more relevant when discussing anything other than people’s paradoxical opinions.
I’m noticing a pattern where you lose the argument, do a bit of name-calling, and then pretend to leave only to return a few hours later. Well, at least I don’t have to spend as much time here.
I have never said this. This is the quote that you think says this, but doesn’t:
No where did I say what Blizzard WANTS, I’m talking about things that Blizzard DOES NOT want. Please actually read things.
If Blizzard wanted to stop premades, they would. Why they do not want to stop premades is irrelevant.
It’s literally their game. They have the ability to do what they want.
So what you’re saying is that not enough people care about them stopping premades? Do you realize how damaging this is for your side? You are literally throwing your side in front of a bus by even suggesting this is the reason Blizzard doesn’t stop premades.
None of what you said here makes sense.
This does not respond to anything I’ve said.
oh cool i can ignore your alt account now too
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lol, you set up a flimsy as best strawman, and then waffle at burning it.
Mmmm waffles.
what are we talking about?
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If someone is totally illogical…at a certain point you walk away. They won’t learn or agree or give up because they are being intellectually dishonest. Getting there with you pretty fast. It’s called a boundary…which judging by our conversation so far you don’t seem to understand.
You do get that want and not want are fairly binary right? Do you get that logic at least? Either they want it in there game or they don’t want it in there game. Do you think there is a third option? Are you trying to claim they are indifferent? How does that jive with the posts from 2012 saying they don’t want it?
It’s a simple ROI issue. They see the fixes as more costly than the problem. We are trying to talk them out of that, but saying that proves that they do not…not want it…ugh what stupid logic that is…and then trying to say that doesn’t mean they want it just that don’t not want it is just tortured silliness.
They set queuing to no raids. Seems like if they wanted people to get around that they would have jut allowed people to queue as a raid…but you know that just means they don’t not want it right? ahaha
I’m saying people haven’t made enough noise to push it over the line. Make enough noise change happens. Welcome the thread.
I know it doesn’t to you. That is the sad part.
Getting real close to that waste of time marker. More and more with your style and lack of logic I am drawing Snoz vibes.
LOL at thinking Pet is me
This is where disruption of multiple games is an issue.
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There were posts/tweets from the PvP devs explaining why they don’t want premade raids in random bgs.
Blizzard has done things in the past to stop premade raids (e.g. breaking premade raid addons), but it’s not a simple fix. Serious countermeasures against premade raids would have repercussions for all PvPers.
It is, and it effects almost no normal player,
Every queue you don’t accept is a 5m deserter that stacks to 24 hours.
Premade raids can get into games on their first or second queue pop. They don’t have to drop a lot of queue pops to get into games.
I’m talking about serious countermeasures that block most/all their attempts to circumvent the system.
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premade’s are what keep this game going.