queue sync.
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Why does another mode make it ok to have a mode be unfair? Also, why would anyone start in rated bgs? Thats ridiculous.
It’s a red herring. You can have protections from people cheating over there so that makes cheating ok!! Thats ridiculous. The people rigging games are the issue, not the people who don’t want games rigged in non rated pvp. Totally illogical and self serving thought there.
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It’s crystal clear when it’s happening.
Just maybe, gearing is related to whether the players are coordinated rated PvPers or just folks trying to enjoy some casual HKs.
The fact that there is even such a thing as an undergeared player in PvP is a problem. Gear and power should be absolutely equalized across unrated max and below max level PvP. None of this some people showing up with 3x the health as others.
Note: I would be completely OK with the XP-off queues removing gear equalization.
Look, if you want fair PvP, let’s go back to Legion stat templates.
I think it’s good in any PvP game to have separate modes for for fun gameplay, low stakes gameplay with few restrictions, and competitive gameplay, MMR and other queue restrictions to enforce competitive integrity.
Now that we have the separate queue for competitive gameplay in BGs with TWW, we can start to loosen restrictions on the non-competitive queue (since it no longer has to cater to both sets of players).
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The 5 man group is a restriction. The mode you are talking about is being messed up by people circumventing the restriction by requeuing and messing up games in other ways. So these guys are the problem not people trying to play under the 5man rule.
Why defend circumventing that restriction?
If they lift the queue fine. If they don’t it’s an exploit pure and simple
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I’m saying the restriction no longer makes sense with the changes to the game in the past 2 years, and therefore should be removed.
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Fine, that’s a reasonable stance. Until they are people who exploit them should be punished.
ONe thing though…there is already a place for raid groups to queue together…so why do we need another one? I don’t see any benefit to premades in RBG other than to allow lopsided fights.
RBG is the gateway to bg pvp in wow. Seems like by design more random less coordination is a better way to go.
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That assumes the raid group has a fixed size. Using that mode, you’re excluding all groups that are above 5, and not exactly 10.
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It was deemed an unfair advantage for any team to have more than 4 friends with them in 2012. Seems like that still holds. If rbg is where you learn bgs so you can prep for rated…why would making games more lopsided be good?
I would contend that (due to different group sizes for random vs rated), randoms are already a bad place to learn for rated. On top of that, there are all the random consumables that work in unrated, but not rated BGs.
And for reasons repeatedly stated above, I contend that this is no longer relevant. The random queue no longer has to serve the competitive players, they have rated soloqueue for that. It’s time to let it do a better job of serving larger friend groups.
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But you haven’t expressed anything that changes the underlying issue. Why would RBGs be better by allowing them to be unbalanced? How is that good? How has that fundamental issue of more than 5 people being grouped making the fights unfair changed? As I said before having another tier that is fair, doesn’t mean making this tier unfair good. So how would it make RBGs better?
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They already are. Sure, with the proposed change, the queue should make a reasonable effort to put approximately the same number of players that queued in parties on both sides, but will eventually have to give up for practical reasons. There doesn’t need to be full competitive integrity in every queue.
If you want to go after unbalance in BGs, stop letting people queue up without full honor gear or better. It creates more unbalance in the power level of the teams. Or, put in an MMR system, so we don’t have a bunch of Elite players against a bunch of sub 1k CR players, because the current system allows that to happen.
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So your answer is make them worse? Nah, that’s silly. Raids shouldn’t be allowed in there period. Plenty of ways to make them better without messing it up more.
I agree they need a better match making system but all of that is totally besides the point here. This exploit damages the system…making it just part of the game would make that worse.
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How does matching the raids against each other make it worse? Wouldn’t that make it better?
If you only allow premades to fight premades then sure. If you are gonna say people can queue as premades and they get matched against randoms, it is worse.
I think matching make ups is a good idea. If you make it that any groups must get matched against similar ie if you are made up of a full raid, or a 2 5s and some randoms, then the other side is the same sure, that would balance it out. If you are just allowing premades in againts randos its gonna be a pug stomp.
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Clearly the only solution is to delete PvP.
Taking an example from another game (5 players), it tries to match all premades of 4 against another pre-made of 4. But sometimes that’s not possible (since there’s MMR in unranked), so a 4+1 ends up against a 2+3. Or 3+1+1 vs 2+2+1. And people are generally ok with it, because this is unranked.
To translate that here: 20+5 solos, vs an a 15, an 8, and 2 solos. Yes, this means there will be solos in pre-made matches. But not all pre-mades have exactly 25 people in them.
Because raids are always going to be queuing?
It would be similar to what we have now. Awful.
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If you allow it, you can control it.
If it’s people using the system to attempt to achieve that result, you can’t.
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