Randoms shouldn’t be about strategy or sweaty play. It’s the casual form of PvP.
We have rated for that very reason.
That is your opinion. It is not fact.
Believe me, if there were rated epics, I would be in them instead.
And I normally play RBGs, I started with an Epic community because my team dissolved at the start of DF.
I’ll probably spend most of my time in BGB next season.
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It’s not my opinion. There are no stakes involved. There is no ranked system. It specifically doesn’t let you enter premades under a single queue because those groups are far more coordinated, which is antithetical to the random BG experience. People play randoms to have fun, not to sweat each match against a 15-stack. If that’s what they wanted, they would play the mode that actually allows premades to enter under a single queue.
It’s your opinion that it is, but any person that isn’t being totally dishonest here would be able to recognize what randoms are intended to be.
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Yes it is.
Everything you listed is opinion.
There is nothing about the interface which tells you what Epics are meant to be. Or how they are meant to be played. Or even if they’re for fun, or casual players. All of that, is your opinion. It may be an opinion held by other players too, but that’s also their opinion.
I’m noticing a trend here in which you resort to pedantry whenever you don’t have a leg to stand on with this matter.
Yes, you’re right, the game doesn’t explicitly state “this game mode is for the casual experience.”
But if the current system of randoms is designed to not allow premades and there’s a completely different mode available that fits the description you think BGs are for, then you should be able to use context clues and recognize that randoms are a casual experience, not designed to be sweaty or competitive.
Apex Legends doesn’t have a mode that explicitly states “casual trios” either, yet the community unanimously understands that the battle royale trios mode is a casual experience, and if you want sweaty competition and coordination, you go ranked.
But it does allow premades, through countdown queues. Which are, currently, allowed.
I suspect it’s to prevent a premade from queuing as a full raid and allows pugs to join in. Rather than exclude them totally.
Otherwise, when they made the queue restriction, they would have also made it against the rules to communicate that you’re clicking the queue button with other people.
Or they would have designed the system to put groups into separate instances. Rather than have them all put into the same instance, which is what the system seems to do.
The communities that I generally run with aren’t all full of fully geared R1s. They’re mostly just also pugs, who have been recruited through games.
We don’t all sit in Discord, I haven’t been in a Discord for months.
We aren’t doing anything that the pug side can’t do, they just seem to give up at the drop of PvP. Because complaining is easier than playing.
And that is the main reason I joined a community in the first place. Pugs would go fishing instead of playing PvP.
It doesn’t allow it. You’re bypassing the system in place to keep premades from entering the same BG. Bypassing isn’t the same as allowing.
I am not talking about what Blizzard has stated about queue syncing. I am specifically talking about the system for randoms when you queue up. Currently, it does not allow for that, and for good reason.
I mean, okay. But do you have anything to support your suspicions? That seems like a baseless assumption that you made up to justify why queueing up is the way it currently is. I sincerely doubt it was Blizzard’s intention to do that, and if it was, they could easily design the system to allow 10 or 15 people, but not 20 or 30. That makes no sense.
Well, no, because when they made these rules, they probably didn’t anticipate people doing that, nor did they anticipate it actually working. Blizzard can’t see into the future.
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It is not an enforceable stance to stop it, so they haven’t stopped it. They also don’t want raids queuing for BGs. That is their stance. It’s wrong because if that is their stance then they need to create a system where queue syncing doesn’t work to get around the 5 man limit. Otherwise they are not attempting to fix a problem they have acknowledged.
So we continue to call on Blizzard to fix the problem.
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Hmm interesting idea. What if every queue gets an extra chunk of time added to it. The bigger the group the bigger the time. Say 1-30 seconds, with a randomizer.
So you queue a 5 man, and it doesn’t actually find you a queue for 15 seconds. Next time 30. Next time 2. For a single it’s between 1-15 seconds.
It would be a number that is figured out by using the data they gather on queue syncing to figure out how sensitive it is and on the number of bgs at a time.
A small buffer to eliminate queue syncing by just making the queue button have a randomized delay. I wonder if that would be effective.
Based on my experience of doing it, I’m fairly sure it facilitates it. If you queue at the same time as another group, you’re more likely to get into the same instance than not.
But Blizzard is very tight lipped about their mechanics, so it’s difficult to have concrete information about a lot of things.
I do know that the matchmaker tries to match groups onto both sides, so if you’re facing a premade, you’re more likely to have a premade on your team.
Not really, no, that’s why it’s a suspicion, if it were more, I would be able to link to something about it.
They didn’t need to. They could have looked into the past.
Random Battlegrounds with the reduced group size were added in 2010.
The Random Battleground option will only allow a group size of 5 players to queue together.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Battleground
This is a Blue post from 2007…
https://www.bluetracker.gg/wow/topic/us-en/3686814071-av-premades-an-exploit/
The addons which were enabling premades were disabled somewhere around 2012, someone else can find that article, I don’t have it on hand.
And there is the 2019 Blue post from Vrakthris.
Oh my god.
I guess we have to explain how queues function now?
This is just how queues work. You get put into a line, so if you click the button at the same time as someone else, you’re either getting lined up next to each other or somewhere close to each other. Kind of like how entering a line at Disneyland with your friend at the same time will have you sat next to each other.
This is literally nothing nor does it support your claim that Blizzard intrinsically designed their system to support premades in BGs.
Back up: Why should I care about what a blue post said in 2007 if they didn’t institute the limitation until 2010? I’m not sure what the 2007 post is in reference to if people were allowed to queue up with premades at that point.
It seems to me they had a policy in 2007 and then shifted in 2010.
Just watched my comment get deleted in real time for no discernible reason. Not sure why, but whatever 
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Nothing they put forward makes sense. It’s what you get when you craft supposed facts around a desired outcome instead of reasoning what the outcome is based on facts.
Blizzard haven’t found a system to stop queue syncing, or bothered to implement one.
Blizzard has stated games are better without premades and they don’t want premades in random bgs, only in rated.
Blizzard cannot monitor if someone is queue syncing directly, so they can’t enforce it through a ticket as an exploit.
Blizzard just quit working on this because it was hard and didn’t have as high an ROI to their eyes. Hopefully now that the problem has grown and we are brining it up along with solutions we might see some change.
Hirav, will just argue the pedantic bs not the good or bad of the whole thing because they know it is bad for the play style, and they will eventually just get mad and call you names. It’s what they do.
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I saw it blink up there for a second, was reading it then it went away. Maybe you got flag bombed? Was weird.
Then again with guild bank stuff disappearing who knows…maybe you made a guild post haha.
Imagine needing to stack a bg to beat random pugs. 
They aren’t succeeding. There is nothing challenging about smashing pugs in an organized group.
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Maybe that’s a good thing, means they’re paying attention. I still think they’re holding off to see if BGB will resolve our concerns but I wish they would have given us something like rated BGs instead with a solo queue. Really, though, the reason I decided not to play it was more the toxicity I faced and I can’t blame them for that. The mathematics of the duo queue is a bit shady but I think the mode is designed for other players and not me so I can’t really judge that either.
I’m just tired of feeling like fodder in their systems, sync queue is just another example of my concerns not the only one.
But Blizzard could have designed the matchmaker to only put one group into each instance, but they didn’t, it’s clearly designed to fill out a team as soon as possible.
They did the same thing in SoD and it meant that solo players never got a queue to pop. Premade groups filled teams faster…
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/horde-group-queue-times-are-long/1853103
I don’t know either, I didn’t start playing until MoP.
No, nothing shifted, the group size reduction doesn’t say anything about disallowing players to queue via voice or chat.
The 2007 and 2019 posts are in accordance with each other.
Oh, so that’s why my reply is formatted weird, it’s really odd.
No, it’s back. False alarm.
I think this is the most likely explanation here. We can keep going in circles here about Blizzard’s design intent. The reality of the situation is that, if Blizzard’s design intent was anything people described it as being, then the systems in-game would support it. Blizzard doesn’t have to make backdoors in their game to support premades. They would just allow premades into the queue without having to sync up when they queue.
Blizzard’s concern goes as far as to whether or not these people are breaking the rules. They technically aren’t, so Blizzard doesn’t care, nor do they care to do anything about randoms because it’s not the point of the game in their eyes. Randoms are an arbitrary game mode to them that doesn’t fit in the broader scheme of what they view WoW should be about.
It’s why hotfixes for raids and M+ get rolled out almost instantly whenever there’s something disrupting the gameplay experience, and why something like leveling, transmog runs, and/or random BGs are haphazardly addressed.
So that’s really what it amounts to. Blizzard allows it because Blizzard doesn’t care enough about it anymore.
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That’s not what I’m saying.
I’m saying that if they limited the number of people in 2010, then why should we care what a blue post says about the matter in 2007? In 2007, people would have been able to queue premades, unless they allowed it and then restricted it again between 2007 and 2010. There’s a piece of information here that’s missing. That’s what’s confusing.
But, in any case, as I’ve pointed out, there’s a good possibility that Blizzard didn’t anticipate queue syncing to work as well as it does, nor did they anticipate it becoming a problem. You can’t enact on things when the problem hasn’t made itself clear.
And if we’re going to riff off of what Blizzard as stated in the past, then it should be known that they stated they don’t want premades in randoms. In my opinion, that trumps everything else said. Blizzard can state they won’t take action on queue syncing, but that would be in contradiction to what they’ve stated about premades and how they believe them to be a detriment to the random BG experience.
So clearly, the design intent is to deter premades, not encourage them.
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So, you are just eating sour grapes because you keep losing?