Premades have completely ruined the PvP BG experience. Do something already

Community General Discussion
3744

It doesnt bother me. Premades are not invincible and can be beaten, have been beaten, and Ive beaten many in pug groups. Just becuase its a premade does not mean your going to instantly lose.

Every game I go in and try my best to win. I dont care what im going agaisnt or the odds, im going to give it my all each time because I enjoy pvp and play it to have fun.

Ive been part of premades, faught premades, dont care. Im in it to win and have fun playing a mode i enjoy.

Since i answered, i offer the same request to you.
If your reasoning agaisnt premades is player experience, then anything creating a worse experience should fall under the same umbrella is all i ask.

This is why Blizzard wont take action, since there are so many things that can also create worse experiences such as bad team mates or poor play that would get caught under the same ruling.

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3745

You didn’t answer the question.
I don’t care if it bothers you.
Is the pvp experience better or worse on whole having premades and queue drops in random battlegrounds? Yes it is better, or no it is worse.

3746

Excelling at Mythic Raids isn’t the achievement you think it is. At a certain point you stop deriving any sense of achievement or accomplishment from waiting for the raid’s caboose to do some basic mechanics.

Blizzard already banned raid queuing in epic BG’s, and one of the reasons was explicitly because premades would queue dodge the minute they saw another premade.

Which meant that it was virtually impossible for anyone else in the BG on their team to win.

It’s incredibly caustic to the community. And unlike a bad it’s pretty cut and dry.

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3747

Ahhh, i get it. It doesnt matter what answer I give. Youve made up your mind and instead if having a discussion you want to draw a line in the sand and saw im wrong not on discussion but on what I feel.

I think Premades are good. There is no rating, nothing is lost for a loss, there isnt anything on the balance in the game mode so letting players go nuts is fine. If a bunch of people want to get togther and play, they should be allowed to.

I also believe the opposite is true aswell, if Bob just worked a 12hr shift and wants to sit on a node and alt tab to youtube, go at it. Talk in chat about your favourit cat video, make some jokes and have a good time. Social players are just as important as the top damage. Sweaty Try hards are people too, everyone needs a good laugh.

Actions that worsen players experiences are what doesnt belong in the game. Dont care what type of player. Scrubs are scrubs, Elitests are Elitests, but we are all people and should be treated fairly.

Que dropping doesnt worsen the player experience, Blizz even tries to autofill players that left although way too slowly. Plase Bliz do this faster! If a group is trying to play togther, good luck. If Blizzard made an option for premades to que eaiser, que dropping would disappear overnight. If premades were made easier to que, you wouldnt get them leaving as they would all be togther already. Does that mean Blizzard should allow them to que as a raid to better the player experience?

TLDR:
Premades good
Blizzard should make Premades able to que as a raid group, then you wont have players droppong ques or leaving when not enough make it into the same one.

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3748

Describes the entire thread.

3749

Que dodging is a massive problem in the game, goes far beyound Random BG premades.

Do you remember all the arena que dodging and win trading in the early seasons? What season was it when it was something like 6 teams in EU all ending the season at the same rating? Was a massive problem for years.

When RBGs came out, i remember controversy at the end of the first seasons becuase of win trading happening.

Teams seeing another premade, knowing they are a better team and leaving is sadly a by product of team games. They should play them, learn and get better, but instead chicken out when nothing is on the line. That is pretty bad.

No idea on how to fix it though. Still a problem and something i dont think could get fixed.

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3750

Uhm you didn’t answer it last time. Jeez.

Hey you finally answered the question!

And here I think you are totally wrong.

See Blizzard made a premade section where you can queue as a raid and a non premade section where you can queue as a group.

In rated it is expected and implicitly allowed. In randoms you have to use tricks to do it so you can pug stomp. Pug stomping ruins peoples gameplay experience because it is not a balanced competitive pvp experience. Can they be beaten!? Yes. Are they even half the time? No. More often then not the premade wins, by a fairly large margin a premade will pugstomp. That is why I believe they are bad for the game. Queue dropping is a side effect that also ruins games by giving an unbalanced advantage.

In short not having premades would make ransoms better. Premades can go to rated.

I am very curious how these sentences work together logically for you? It doesn’t worsen the experience, but blozz needs to fill faster? Why of it doesn’t hurt anything? That makes no sense.

They can, in rated, where they have said they should be. Different game modes are good. Having people circumvent the game modes bad.

Edit sorry but do you not see how premades takes away from the pvp version of this:

You are saying premades are fine because nothing is lost while also saying casuals should get to have fun and ignoring that premades take casual pvp off the table.

Edit 2:Sorry for the double edit but

Time and fun are lost. If you get in against one most of the time you just sit and take it or quit and make someone else sit and take it. That is absolutely a loss to players forced into it.

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3751

No such thing is happening. That would be considered an exploit. Blizzard doesn’t allow exploits. Blizzard has explicitly stated that premades are allowed and the most common method of premade is allowed. Just because you want to play an mmorpg solo doesn’t mean the rest of us do.

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3752

nobody in their right mind expects “balance” when they enter a bg.

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3753

Im sorry, i think you miss quoted me.
Please tell me which part you meant to disagree on me with. Im pretty sure its not the part saying that we are all people and should be treated equally.

Unless you meant to do that and are secretly the next expansions villain =P

Rated is there but now poses consequences on performance. If you lose, CR/MMR is on the line, altering the dynamic of the group. You go from mass inviting everyone to having to check rating and being choosy.
You go from casual fun in a group to playing to win.
You go from not caring about gear to inspecting.
You go from any class to buff stacking.
Thats the problem with pushing them to rated, compared to randoms.

Random BGs were never balanced competitive pvp. I still remember the day in BC where they tried to balance randoms, same number of healers, same number of dps. Lasted one day. Healer ques hit 4 hours, DPS hit 6 hours. Was hotfixed fast. They tried sub honour level 30 in thier own que, that lasted from legion to DF.

Premades beating pugs does happen. They are more organized.
Geared team vs non geared team happens. They are out geared.
Team of experienced players vs team of new players does happen. They are more experienced.

Looped sided games happen. Been part of both sides. Those games usually end pretty fast, and off to the next one you que. Giving up though because of those reasons, not trying becuase of those reasons is silly to me, but alot of people do.

Mass majority of the match is played full team vs full team if people dont quit. If you start short on team members, change strats till your team is filled. Changing strats doesnt worsen the player experience and once filled, push forward. I meant the comment as more of an olive branch while i was trying to edit spelling errors (not the best typer as you can tell). Lots of players instantly quit when forced to change outside thier norm, even if the match is winnable. If Blizz autofilled faster, those players would leave less.

Your Edit 1
You are making this black white when its grey. Bob can still play and pvp agaisnt them. If Bob is alt tabbing to watch youtube, they still end the game with more honour than they started with. Bob lost, got honour, ques again. Bob is still making progress towards thier goals. Fighting a premade doesnt stop Bobs progress or make him lose CR/MMR. Bob can still be Bob.

Edit 2
You can still have fun. You can still fight others, you can still hit your buttons. You can still have fun playing the game, even if its a loss. Fun doesnt only come from winning, you can you have fun still playing the game and doing your thing. Time lost is less in the premade than an actual loss. You said premades are usually quick stomps, so its lose get honour, que again for more.

My edit 1: Sorry for the long post and bad spelling…and worse grammer.

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3754

I think we just need to agree to disagree until such a time as Blizzard clarifies their position, until then pugs should stop queuing epics as that’s the only effect they have on policy. Tell your friends, advise new people.

3755

Ruining the game consistently for other players is good!

Got it. A+ response.

Legit makes 0 sense.

Got it. So you have no idea what you’re talking about. This is actually hilarious at this point.

What we expect is an equal chance of random. We expect that the team on the other side was put together in the same manner as we are on. You win some and you lose some. Premades break that.

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3756

Blizzard has said that it’s ok to get our raids into the bg’s as long we don’t exploit their que restrictions that are there to prevent our raids from getting in the bg’s.

This is literally their argument. There’s no middle ground to be found when that is their logic.

Stop queing. People will continue to avoid the game mode and when these players are only queing against other premades, the game mode will die. And then they’ll find some way to blame others for not wanting to play with them. Even their own because those “friends” of theirs in those communities will also go poof.

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3757

These arguments remain as nonsensical as they did when people regurgitated them originally.

Randoms are always going to have an element of lopsidedness to them. That is inevitable and, frankly, unavoidable unless Blizzard were to put in some semblance of an SBMM system into randoms.

But they are RANDOM. That’s the counterbalance here. In the same way you may get someone on the opposing team with an elite rating, you could very well end up with someone on YOUR team with an elite rating, too.

Premades are a circumvention of that randomness. They exploit the system to get put into the same lobby, and on the off-chance they don’t get into the same lobby, they end up leaving and greatly altering the outcome of that BG.

Moreover, your perspective is insanely defeatist. “Randoms are always unbalanced so it’s okay.” By your logic, we should just allow anything and everything in randoms because they’re “lopsided,” cheating included.

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3758

This pedantic stuff again. I am not saying every bg needs to be fair, but the system should be. Just like any sport the system for getting your people together being fair dictates if the game is. Nobody expects a totally balanced basketball game, but both teams should have similar rules to putting that team together.

This goes around and around same bs ever time.

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3759

This idea that a system allowing for players to time a button click to make a game MORE lopsided being good for the game still makes no sense. You are saying it is ok because it doesn’t mean an instant win and the rest of pvp isn’t perfectly fair. That doesn’t make it better to make it more unfair. That is what is black and white. Things that make it more unfair for very little to no gain are bad for PVP.

I am not talking about someone who afks in a bg. i am talking about the person who drops into pvp every now and then or tries to get into pvp. He logs into an epic and has no chance against a team that is super coordinated. You keep saying they can win, but that is not how you setup a system. It’s a bootstraps argument that ignores the difficulty level being forced on a person.

That is not an argument for premades to be better…in fact none of these are. You are arguing that premads don’t completely ruin the game so thus they are good because some people like them. That doesn’t make sense for game design.

Premades make the system MORE imbalanced, and lower the fun for more people than they create it for. It might be hard to stop, but you still haven’t made much of an argument for premades being better for the pvp community and the fun of that mode of pvp. You have made arguments for it not completely ruining the mode, which I guess I can agree with, but on some days…it does. Some days you hit a ton of them, and no matter how well you play or try to organize you just get stomped. Not beat…stomped.

It’s just not fun when that happens. I think that’s a bad design for pvp at that point.

Not sure what you mean by this. I quoted you a number of times. I don’t see you saying “we are people and should be treated equally” in the post I replied to. I disagree with you on the idea that premades don’t ruin the experience for non-premade playing characters. I very much disagree with that. Random should be casual…it’s the point of that mode. Injecting premades into it ruins I would say 95% of games for casuals who come up against them…and that is being generous.

Edit oh haha you misquoted yourself. It was fairly not equally. Yeah I agree with that. What I disagree with is that people should be able to use a trick to make a game MORE lopsided. That isn’t treating people equally. It is allowing one group to dominate a gameplay mode and mostly ruin it for a much larger population that is trying to have fun. We should tell all of those people to follow the rule set not to use tricks to slant the games more.

3760

Spoken like someone that’s never don’t any hard mythic content. It’s ok you don’t know much of anything else either.

It’s always funny to me when people that have never broken 1500 in pvp try to talk like PvE isn’t difficult.

You do realize I have higher pvp achievements than you do right?

3761

I still do not understand how that ‘person,’ has not had a wellness check.

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3762

Do you think random BGs are on the same level as sports?

3763

That has nothing to do with it. It is about how you create a fun competitive landscape. That is why other sports do it, and it is a good way to look at the situation.

So no I don’t, but there is a lot to learn from how sport leagues are setup for do’s and don’ts for long term competitive fun play.

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