You shouldn’t be discussing anything PVP with that honor level.
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Yea, he’s little to no experience in PVP, yet he wants to discuss it… obviously a 
It seems to be something incredibly common on these forums.
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This is why I stopped doing PvP in general. I don’t have the gear for rated anything, and I don’t have the anger management to get the gear via random bgs. I have never enjoyed PvP content post Vanilla, it hasn’t been fun since then. I loved when you could go into an AV that lasted weeks on end and get an entire gear set by the end of it. Yes, there were people with full gear, but I don’t even remember hearing about premades back then.
Today’s PvP seems to be more about comp, when it comes to rated content, and randoms are more premade than not. If they’re not part of the premade, they just AFK in the graveyard or stay in ghost form away from the graveyard and collect honor. I had a guy RP walk across a GY once when we were getting camped, refused to take any res, and when a ticket was filled out by a friend, they said there was nothing they could do. That we ‘could report them for inactivity’, which is cleared the moment they move.
Most PvPers I encounter don’t care about the toxic behaviour - most of them play other games, so if one shuts down, they’ll just go somewhere else. They have no investment in this game at all. The funniest part is, perhaps, that most of the players I’ve known personally who do dedicated PvP, over the course of the time I’ve been playing this game, have eventually quit or found another game they like better. Some of them were toxic people. Some were not, but they understood that you seemingly have to have a very specific type of personality to deal with PvP.
They could solve the issue simply by placing grouped players in separate BGs for others who are grouped. If you’re queuing with more than 2 people, you get put in that group. If you’re not grouped, you get placed in a random with other non-grouped people. Why they’re putting grouped people in randoms with non-grouped people is itself senseless. I like the concept of limiting randoms based on iLevel, too. That would be helpful in later portions of the season, where people are gearing alts and learning how to PvP on those chars, too, I feel like. That’s a pretty smart idea.
ETA 1:(And before people start in with the ‘but you don’t PvP’ - this is my secondary main. My primary main is an OG Vanilla Spriest with the original Sergeant title, would have been several ranks higher if I hadn’t gotten seriously ill for 2 weeks before they took the titles out, and couldn’t play to keep my rating. So yes - I used to do substantial PvP, I enjoyed it a lot, and over time I still occasionally involve myself in it - this character has the Justicar title and wears it proudly. If they fixed a lot of the issues that made it feel so unbalanced, I’d probably do it a lot more - I obviously collect both mounts and achievement points, and PvP as well as Pet Battles are two areas I still need a lot of them in.)
ETA 2: Honestly, over time, it seems like this game has gotten a lot less social, friendly, and generally just anti-willing to help overall. People are malicious or aggressive when you ask questions, sarcastic without a need to be, just vicious and impersonal in general. It’s not even about ‘unintelligent questions’, it’s about people being mean just to be mean, and it’s never more prolific these days, I’ve seen, than in PvP environments. Someone tries to be a leader and suggest teamwork, and they immediately get picked on, yelled at, or degraded by people who apparently play an MMO to be toxic or don’t want to help lead, they just want to criticize the ones who are trying to. Until that changes? Doing any kind of non-premade content seems pretty doomed.
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And the main thing being in the new player bracket there is no premade. It’s a totally different reality.
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Yea, the game was very different than. I feel like we are at the other end of the pendulum swing right now. Easy access to gear and fast leveling has pushed PvP to the edges. Even casual PvP has turned into something overly serious.
That’s why I hate these premades so much. BGs used to almost be relaxing for me. Low effort. Low stress. Maybe grind out some achievements or rack up some HKs. Now that’s being taken away. You can’t just have a chill game because of these players. We have group content for people who want to be serious about PvP. That they can’t do that and instead have to feed off random solo players sucks.
I’m holding out for a response. This is a big issue and it points to other issues that should be addressed.
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What does not wanting premades in randoms have to do with single player lol
This is why. This is the growing sentiment from chronically casual players.
The people who are vehemently against premades in any form, and the people who want this, is a circle.
Screw that.
Rose tinted glasses. There were more people who had no idea what they were doing. Thats all.
Even though premade players will either ignore this or try to obfuscate this, here is an archive of blizzard’s stance on premades in 5.1 changes well over a decade ago.
The archive is the only source for the source since it has been erased on wow’s sites.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130127210526/http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7199643338#1
In patch 5.1, we resolved some issues regarding how Addons interact with the Battleground queue system. It is no longer possible to automate queuing for standard or random Battlegrounds in groups larger than 5. We decided to make this change in order to improve the experience for all players who are queueing into random groups normally and expecting to face similarly random groups, only to find themselves crushed by a full team of coordinated opponents.
We understand that players want to enjoy coordinated team play, and we invite those players to queue into Rated Battlegrounds or play Wargames to have that experience. Players can continue to use Addons to queue for Rated Battlegrounds as well.
And here is where they make it even more clear that it’s NOT just an addon change:
https://web.archive.org/web/20121208020124/http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7200052820?page=11#214
I’ll try to break it down as clearly as I can:
The normal Battleground queue is for players to jump in and play against other players in a similar situation. We realize that it’s not a perfect system, and we’re still looking at ways to improve normal Battleground queues further. Regardless, it’s not meant for organized groups to “pug stomp” and get quick Honor. We have built in outlets for players that want to organize–if a competitive, social experience was really the goal, then there are clear ways to achieve that.
The ultimate effect that this kind of queuing has had is to drive players away from PvP. Perhaps it’s been a long time since you’ve been in a random group, but a lot of players will see that they’re up against a premade and simply quit. At best, they suffer through it. To an extent premade groups count on this. Heck, one of the popular addons announces opposing players that appear to have rage quit.
These statements were from 2012. Blizzard had an anti-premade stance against premades, and addons that made it easier, in 2012.
Premade advocates argue in bad faith by claiming(either maliciously or ignorantly) that blizzard has never cared about premades in random ques. It’s completely false. They’ll make the statements like, “it’s an mmo, not a single player game lol.”
Blizzard made their position known over a decade ago. The issue is that they(current devs) are too lazy address it.
Again:
The ultimate effect that this kind of queuing has had is to drive players away from PvP. Perhaps it’s been a long time since you’ve been in a random group, but a lot of players will see that they’re up against a premade and simply quit. At best, they suffer through it. To an extent premade groups count on this
Fast forward to today and that stance is 100% correct. It’s a whole lot worse now as the playerbase for pvp has gotten smaller which means your chances of ending up against a premade are far greater than before. And it is continuing to snowball.
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Bro, they 100% know this already lol. They just don’t care because:
- None of them have a horse in this race and are solely here to act as contrarians.
- They’ve been doing this for years now and now they’re worried that their actions might have consequences.
That’s pretty much the gist of this thread lol
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I don’t take your word for what they know and what they think or care about.
I made the post so there is a closer resource to counter many lies that take place in this discussion.
I mean, people have linked that blue post several times now, and they continue to extrapolate the wrong details to make their points.
They don’t care. I appreciate the thought and consideration on the matter, but it became really clear days ago that these people do not care lol
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I didn’t see where people linked it before. I just know no one does in every other thread on this problem that takes place here and the BG section. So I assume this is like any other. And after scrolling for a while, the assumption was correct. It’s the same BS back and forth.
Until I see a blue say they don’t care, I won’t assume that. I just assume they’re too lazy or burdened to do anything about it.
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No.
It’s the reality that leveling, gearing, everything… took more time. Players had a larger investment in far fewer toons.
It’s what we have all been saying and every sensible person knows. It’s crazy there has been even a sliver of debate.
It’s sad to see that 12 years ago they realized this was driving players away and they didn’t come up with a better solution. Now the problem has done serious damage and actually driven players away from the game, not just PvP.
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True but keep in mind that BlizZard’s lack of communication silence has festered such an environment to grow in the first place.
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I play daily. I used to treat this game like a job. I have over 35k achievement points, many Legacy and FOS ones among them, and currently 802 mounts. I raided significantly with server-first guilds in the past. Your definition of casual and mine is by no means the same. Just because I don’t try-hard 2400 rating every season, doesn’t mean I’m anything close to ‘casual’. I tapered off this expansion because of a relationship split and move, and a plethora of other issues. I feel like that term gets thrown around way too much by people looking to trash-talk people who don’t share their views - that’s someone with a different opinion, not a ‘casual’. You should learn the difference.
People are not ‘vehemently against premades’. They’re against premades being put in to camp lower-geared or un-grouped randoms. You want to do a premade? By all means, do a premade. But in the infamous words of morally un-bankrupt people, ‘pick on people your own size’. There’s nothing awesome or ‘non-casual’ about going into a random BG and trashing up people who aren’t in pre-mades and aren’t on Discord communicating with one another. That’s the reason they made Wargames, and Rated BGs. But then y’all would have to face people doing the same level of content you are, and that wouldn’t be fair, right?
Right. Way to try and get confrontational because someone doesn’t want to take part in unfair, deck-stacked content without purposefully queuing for it. People who sit there and argue that premades in random BGs is fine, are the same type of people who show up in capital cities with a 40+ man raid group or two, in non-peak-time hours on dead servers and brag about ‘taking over cities’. You just look sad and it’s obvious that if there was ever a situation where someone answered your level of brawn with equal measure, you’d be the first one coming to cry about it on the forums.
This is the kind of mentality and reasons people have largely seemed to stop taking part in PvP, and new people aren’t showing up in numbers. I’m glad I got my Justicar title done, and I’ve made my peace with the fact I’ll probably never get higher than my 55 honor level in any kind of non-rated content. If they ever fix the premades-in-random BGs ordeal, I might get back into it. I’m planning on dabbling in Arenas next Xpac with a good friend, so we’ll see how that goes.
I feel for anyone who loves PvP and has to deal with people like you. This ‘if you don’t agree with me you’re a casual’ garbage is why I don’t really even talk to people in this game anymore. People are so ridiculous sometimes. ‘More people who didn’t know what they were doing’, but there were people like Swifty around. Yeah. Okay. Whatever you say, sir and/or ma’am.
Also, arguing about PvP when you’re posting on an Evoker…
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I meant with the discussion at hand.
Alterac Valley, just like Warsong Gultch before it had a timer, didnt last days to a week on end because “vanilla just took longer and was just awesome”
It was for a number of reasons:
People generally sucked.
Bottlenecks brought that suck in because the majority just wanted to aram because thats all they knew before bgs or because they just didnt care about objectives or killing vanndar/drekthar
They spent too much time on getting objectives to make any progress because doing so allowed the other team to regroup and as a resfult troops refilled faster than they were lost.
There was no time limit.
Wsg was the same way without a time limit. There might be one or two flags gotten, but then people would stop and just farm hks and it never mattered because there was no time limit.
You could do that with AB too but it was far too big for honor and hk farming to be effecient enough to do, and AV was just objectively cooler in general, so its not remembered as much as the other 2 for that.
Didnt ask. I said it was the growing sentiment of casuals. Looking at you the last thing you did of any relevance was Legion, making you by todays standards, a casual, someone who doesnt play to the highest ability or someone who doesnt play the majority of the time in a majority of the content. Even still. Havent seen you in anything close to world first, since you brought it up, could be wrong. But you dont need verification from me nor do i need to verifiy you. Its irrelevant.
They exist as an alternative to arenas because people wanted rated pvp content for more than just arena. Wargames exist as an extension of hat to mirror non rated arena matches. Nothing more nothing less and certainly not with a poor ulterior motive like premades. If they cared to “fix” premades in bgs they would just make it impossible to queue with more than 1 or 2 people but also have to make a system that could track down to the second when people are pressing the queue button.
Theyre not going to do that or they would have done that already.
No one is doing any of that. People are doing premades largely to rule out people who either are bad at mechanics, skills, or both. They also do them to warm up before playing games that “matter” and either dont know another team of x people to do a wargame with, or they want the same ease of access in just queueing.
Those same bad people who dont care about their own skill much less grouping or commincation lose, and suddenly it’s everyone elses fault.
Hence what i said about making a multiplayer game single player. Get in groups of 3 to 5 and collectively get better.
This both doesnt happen enough to matter and baseless untruth.
Incorrect stereotype. Try again.
Not what was said. Just an observation on the accolades people with these complaints tend to have, and how they voice them. Thats all.
Irrelevant.
Maydie.
Swifty.
Soda.
Unbreakable.
Etc etc. Individual people who are good, can do good, and dont cry when they lose.
Coincidentally, the warriors were also almost always with a pocket healer not being touched. But I digress
What kind of comment is this? What difference does it make? You discriminating against dragons?
Its a forum avatar that didnt even exist before this year.
Id argue a max level character has more say in this than, for example, the level 21 on a throwaway account earlier.
But see they agree with you. So thats why its “okay” i guess.
If the skill level has too large of a gap no amount of “working together” is going to fix that and a good premade who near undoubtedly will take advantage of voice will utterly crush the morale of an opposite team in a random bg very quickly.
It’s not cheating but the advantage is the difference between night and day. And if there is any disparity between number of healers or tank depending on the BG it becomes infinitely worse.
You can still win versus a premade but if your team doesn’t show any sort of initiative in the first 5 mins it’s near always over afterwards.
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I made a very broad comment. The game was very different than. You’re focusing on a specific thing.
Maybe against a 5 man group. No premade larger than 10 is losing to randoms though, especially the one in any of the epic bgs.
nah the solution is to let full teams queue AGAINST each other, because this queue sniping business is bad for both sides of the spectrum.
They won’t have long queues, because there will be tons of streamers making teams.
Just have a seperate queue for full teams and random solo players, and 5 man groups could be bundled together to face a full pre-made, so they get a taste of their own medicine.
Easiest solution is teams vs teams, and solo/duo vs solo/duo.
Not being able to queue as a full 40 man for epics or 14 man for randoms is bad for the game, because it reduces social activity and just hurts people with lots of friends that want to play together.
Having the 5 man limitation is bad for the game, and bad for us, because it means less subs and less time being put into the game we love and are all investing into.
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