Nah big disagree. If you complain about organized PvP in Epic Battlegrounds, then Epic Battlegrounds isn’t for you.
Tbh needs proper premade support in general.
It isn’t an exploit because Blizzard never confirmed it to be, and has let us play with pre-mades for years.
Well no, coming from someone who actually does exploit, the case of premade syncing isn’t exploitative in nature. Exploiting is typically referred to as abusing an unintended game mechanic (a bug).
Even when oQueue addon was around, that itself wasn’t exploiting because WoW’s API allowed an addon to do what it did. It streamlined premade syncing by allowing them to queue at the exact same time, and would decline a queue pop if that queue didn’t pop at the exact same time for everyone.
Blizzard didn’t like this, and they broke the API functionality for the addon so that this wouldn’t be possible. They didn’t suspend or ban anyone for it though because their design allowed that addon to do that. It wasn’t an unintended use of the API, it just wasn’t a possibility they had thought of.
Manual premade syncing is similar. It’s a result of how the queue system is designed. You queue for something, and the system randomly pulls in players also queued for the same thing. If people are queueing at the same time, there’s possibility that they can end up in the same game. Sure, people are making this more than a possibility by dropping queue whenever they don’t get the same pop, but the game allows them to drop the queue.
Is premade syncing unfair? Yes, it is. I’m not arguing against that. It’s just the unfortunate design of this system.
It doesn’t punish you for purposely dropping a queue over and over again, and even though players are manually saying, “queue at the same time / queue pop! / drop the queue!” they aren’t abusing an unintended game mechanic.
You can say, “it isn’t for you” all you want, but theres no argument that you or anyone can make that can’t deny that a premade vs a pug is unfair. A premade has the inherent advantage because you can choose people with gear over those with less gear, can choose class/spec composition in your groups, etc. compared to a team that has random variables.
It also doesn’t help that only one faction can easily premade sync and the other can’t.
Well that’s the beauty of cross faction random battlegrounds. 
There would be no premade support. If you have to fight half of your group, it’s all the more interesting.
Ah ok. So the 5-man queue restriction that is in place is just a gentle suggestion?
The argument is: “Join a pre-made”, just like in PvE where if you don’t like pugging you group up with people you know, create a social network yada yada.
Pugs can also get gear, doesn’t take a lot of time to get full 411 honor gear. Class/spec composition can also be done with 5 person groups. I agree if you think the match making is bad at balancing specs together, but again you can avoid that by not pugging.
Not sure about US, in EU this is not a problem at all. If horde queues are long, people player their alliance alts or merc. If Alliance queues are long, you can sometimes find an alliance merc npc in boralus (guess same on US).
Not going to disagree, but it does take away the core of factions, which is a big blocker for some people. I think this would work as a work-around, but not sure if they are willing to do this.
If it’s an exploit, then why hasn’t blizzard said anything about it the past years? Then why aren’t they taking actions against people doing it? Just because they don’t make it easy to queue as raid, doesn’t mean it’s forbidden to try and get in the same bg as your friends 
If running the stop sign on the corner of my house is illegal, then why haven’t I gotten ticketed for it before? I looked on the crime map, there has never once been a citation for running the stop sign.
They have in the past openly stated that they do not like premades in the normal queue. Fortunately, all posts before 2019 have been deleted and all tweets by wow dev have been deleted prior to 2019.
Also by your logic, if it’s allowed then why have the 5-man restrictions at all? Why not allow a full premade to queue together?
So if they haven’t brought it up in years and they’ve never actively actioned players who queue then why do you keep insisting that they in fact do?
Like I said, threads like these are just popcorn for premade groups.
It’s always the same 3-4 whiners too.
So you’re pointing out something that isn’t allowed, now show me where Blizzard says it’s not allowed and I’ll agree with you.
So it’s almost like they don’t care and they let us do 
By my logic they don’t allow raids because they can’t guarantee that 40 people can play every epic battleground as some are limited to less than 40. Same with rated PvP where there are no matches with more than 10v10 afaik.
They have. Some players choose to ignore them.
Well, keep trying to queue up as a raid. Let me know when it works.
Thats under the assumption every epic BG will be premade vs premade, which is not realistic. Pug vs premade is still unfair.
The argument you’re making is really counterproductive when players who already have their own social network, aka those who are playing with a small group of their friends in a 5 man or less, encounter a large 40 man premade and get stomped on.
Also, you’re comparing PvE to PvP, get real man. PvE is cooperative, PvP is competitive. Apples to oranges.
The point flew right over your head and even acknowledged by yourself here.
Pugs can’t control who is in their group. They can’t pick people with better ilvl and they can’t have the perfect class/spec composition that they would want vs a premade. I’m not saying it’s impossible for a pug group to have good gear, I’m saying it’s impossible for them to pick all 40 of their members like a premade can.
You’re either being purposely obtuse or you don’t see anything wrong with what you said.
Example: “Horde cant premade as easily as Alliance can because queue times.”
You: “lol! If Horde can’t premade as easily as Alliance just go Alliance through merc! 
”
It’s the same vice versa. Horde isn’t premading at that point, it’s Horde who have gone Alliance temporarily to premade and fight other Horde.
Core of factions have already been taken away. Since you want to compare PvE and PvP so much and see no problem with it, PvE has cross faction grouping already.
Lorewise too, it’s moved away from faction conflict already. PvP player base is already small and continuing to die, why separate that player base in half when it doesn’t need to be?
They barely talk about anything anymore. Community engagement is at an all-time low. Ion could come into this forum himself and tell you specifically that you are not allowed to do something and you would still try to find reasoning on how it doesn’t apply to you.
That’s some weird logic. But the 5 man limit was put in place BECAUSE people would premade AV. If they only wanted some people queuing, then why not stop at 10?
You sure? I distinctly remember you being a glowy red spirit goat
Never a spirit goat. Only a holy cow.
We’ve been through this! you’re not a cow!
Neither are you!
No need to go there. The merc NPC is in with the conquest/honor vendor.
yeah. the truth is that if 40 individual players, 8-5 man groups, 2 groups of 20, 4 groups of 10 want to queue for specific content, they will, and will more than likely end up in that same content. the game isn’t big enough to hide behind in epics, it’s just not that big of a pool. This is how the game works, just on paper, applying WoW to it makes it sing. If you can’t hit that high note, that’s fine really, but don’t hate those that can sing.
If they can point at a blue post they found in the mud, they can pretend it means something, when really it was probably made by someone who didn’t understand the concept of the problem at the time and just didn’t want to sound stupid infront of the forum manager.
This is hilarious logic. “If you can’t accept being forced to play against us stacking the match in our favor to ridiculous proportions, than you don’t belong in Epic BGs.”
Pug stomping in Epic BGs isn’t a noble pursuit nor is it a show of skill. Ya’ll are knuckle dragging simpletons.
They made a 5man restriction to prevent people mass grouping in AV. They made an algorithm that is more like to pair premade groups against other premades groups. You are taking 2 things that were used against premades and to justify premading.
Which is ironic, because if Blizz started banning people for it these same individuals would unsub.
I’m sorry you can’t count to 40 or understand what that actually means for game systems, but I’m just gonna disregard you from now on. Maybe you’ll get wise eventually, but I suspect you’ll wait for something insane to happen instead, and then claim it as a miracle.
I don’t actually see people defend this on the regular, but you cry about it in spades. Half of this thread is about putting large groups against eachother with relevant implications, but you’re too busy worrying about your last loss and why it matters less to you lmao. All of you types are crabs, all 4 of you tbf. You muse about how the game can cater to your lesser ideas, whilst those doing it offer you genuine paths to playing the game. Who cares, go rub rocks together.
Better yet, I’ll go one step even further; conquest gimmes from randoms have ruined randoms for the sake of economizing battle for what might as well be bots in game, and that’s got to stop.
Pug stomping is the end result of people queue syncing in Epic BGs. Let’s at least be honest about what is happening in these matches okay?
I would love nothing more than to have these groups of people cordoned off in their own separate playground. We all love the idea, but that’s not what happens around here and we both know that.
Honestly if these groups of chest thumpers used their ridiculous advantage to speed run a map I would ignore it. But that’s not what happens, they use their coordinated advantage to draw these games out for as long as possible. It’s a waste of everyone’s time.
You are the poster boy for their delusions of grandeur. Congrats.