This. The concept of a baseline tree works well when you have a solid baseline class. We once had that as Hunters, but Blizzard made a concerted effort to dismantle, compartmentalise, and dilute what it means to be a Hunter to chase their toxic Legion design philosophies of spec fantasy over class fantasy.
It used to be pretty easy to define Hunters in WoW. They were the ones that used ranged weapons and pets. Now they don’t all use ranged weapons and they don’t all use pets, and this has opened the floodgates to all sorts of toxic Hunter class suggestions including tanking and healing Hunters or a spec that’s based entirely around throwing weapons. Such things are bad fits for the class and nonsensical in terms of the purpose of specs as extensions and elaborations on the base class, but hey: if Blizzard doesn’t care about the Hunter class identity, why should anyone else?
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Hunters used spears and hatchets darts to hunt then bow and gun made it easier in later centuries and helped hunters feed more people as a role in society and was needed until Farming and husbandry fulfilled the role of providing food, and in wow there is a beast companion aspect that is about taming hunting partners and coexisting and use of magic, poison and traps that have evolved from hunters having use there skill for warfare and we even know a druid style heals to heal our pets but not ourselves though exhilaration is a spell i guess with long cooldown that causes a green heal we can use sparingly. I think a Hunters in WoW now have the most diveristy that fits the 3 main types of hunters using every tool that this world has to offer and Blizzard has an amazing job on the class design they just need work or playstyle and balance tweaking things and not being scared of new ideas to try they did GREAT with Survival Hunter the best Hunter spec in my opion and BEST version to date.
i dont think ancient spear hunters had grenades and mini crossbows though
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Ill just quote myself since you tldr responded “in wow there is a beast companion aspect that is about taming hunting partners and coexisting and use of magic, poison and traps that have evolved from hunters having to use their skill for warfare and we even know a druid style heals to heal our pets but not ourselves through exhilaration”
There is no indication of this at all
Oooooooooo.!.! Can we have a spec that tanks and heals and throws weapons(2h swords please) and uses grenades and new ranged weapons that shoot spears (which we can still use in melee) while permanently summoning all the pets in our stable?? We can call it the Artimis spec.
And darts, it needs darts to. They should be little red and blue ones so it would look like we stole them from a tavern.
Kidding aside, I recal people asking for BM tank spec all the way back in vanilla when people would run dungeons with boars to soak.
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if theres anything we learned from classic is you should never listen to what any vanilla fan wants
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Didn’t say I wanted a BM tank spec. Just that it’s nothing new for people to ask for it.
Saying they’ve done an amazing job on Hunters is an egregiously bad take. They’ve diluted the class identity and made a joke of Survival.
You rapid-fire excuses in that giant block of text like there’s no tomorrow and it just comes across as confused just like the spec itself. It’s a primal Hunter that’s about self sufficiency while also being a beast companion while also being a utilitarian that uses explosives and poisons. The only thing that’s evident from Survival’s theme is that there is no theme; it’s a confused mix of everything as no one can decide on what direction to take beyond use of a melee weapon. What makes this situation more unacceptable is that ostensibly the whole reason for making the spec melee in the first place was that the ranged spec was apparently not consistent or distinct enough; it’s arguably worse on both those fronts now.
P.S. I can only laugh when SV Hunters say “it’s all about using every tool available!” when we are talking about the only Hunter spec that can’t use its ranged weapon to its fullest capacity and has a dependence on melee range. Continuing to pretend that SV is all about versatility and adaptability is peak gaslighting; one of the biggest class design lies ever sold to the playerbase.
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I’m glad you agree with me since all hunter classes lack strong self-sufficiency its not only a weakness of SV hunters but you could say the ranged spec has it easier cause they can kite to avoid damage. But you still haven’t made any point on why it’s bad you listed a bunch of good things and then tossed emotion at it saying “egregiously bad” and “diluted the class identity”.
Your words are being “ostensible” being such in appearance plausible rather than demonstrably true or real. If the spec was so bad then you could suggest improvements to the current theme without reverting to RSV easily cause your entire basis is on unwanted changes you never asked for not because of any facts on trying the spec and critiquing on how they could done better.
They were the best users of ranged weapons and had a unique beast pet system. You will recall that Mages, Priests, and Warlocks all had pets and ranged weapons (wands). Warriors and Rogues made significant use of weapons in the ranged slot from time to time— typically thrown, but occasionally bows or guns.
They were not the ones that used ranged weapons nor pets.
That’s not to diminish your valid point that spec identity diminished class identity. I just disagree that class identity can be adequately distilled down to ranged weapons and pets.
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I think they want to wait and pretend they decided to make ranged SV an option after beta starts so it seems like they were responding to feedback. You cant convince me that they dont plan to have ranged SV come launch.
I hope this is true but I hope it stays a melee weapon based class and your just throwing your weapon around like Thor or unleashing arcane or nature magic in a slash of magic and rework Aspect of the Eagle. And maybe there is a plus side to staying in melee being leech or a buff in damage but your not stuck in it in any way.
I am thinking: with a Talent Tree, I could build my Hunter to excel in one or more play-styles or areas of competence.
If DPS was all, I could orient towards that.
If my personal survivability took precedence, I could focus on that.
Or, I could concentrate single-target or AoE DPS, my choice.
I could even try to put together a utility build.
This is what I hope Talent Trees bring to the Class.
I think if they wanted to bring back some version of RSV then I’d imagine they’d use MM as the base for it giving options for DoT’s in the Spec Tree with Trap Specialization achieved via the Class Tree.
I highly doubt they’re going to mess too much with the core identity they’ve given to SV.
What core identity? Melee SV is like 3 different identities competing for prominence.
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Got to agree.
Hunters are the only PURE dps class with both a Ranged and a Melee Spec. The other Pure DPS classes do not have this to contend with.
About the only situational on use thing Ranged might want would be harpoon hop in fast for a help soak mechanic like on Anduin absorb shield. The Range on it sucks tho IMO.
Mages, Rouges, Warlocks Don’t have this issue to mess with the available spots in their respective build tree’s.
Of all the Hybrid classes Only druids have the same metric at least they get added utility to compensate with certain talents/skill’s being usable in all forms.
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You know how a toad lives almost completely on dry land all its life, with only brief, infrequent visits to a watery environment? MSV is kinda like that with melee. I imagine both think it’s fun, but the toad also has a sensible reason for doing so. MSV, not so much.
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Actually not only is “diluted the class identity” not an emotive statement but I explained why SV is bad. It has no central theme. It’s a confused mess of different concepts with no direction. Wildfire Bomb has nothing to do with Kill Command and they are poor fits for one another. The same is true for Serpent Sting and Raptor Strike.
Not only is it directionless but it excessively depends on BM’s identity; Kill Command, Coordinated Assault, and Spirit Bond are all borrowings from BM. Melee SV fans love to parrot the talking point that ranged SV was just a derivative of MM, yet in SV’s ranged days it never had to share core, iconic abilities with MM. Apparently using a melee weapon is license to copy BM as much as possible, though.
As I said in my last post, the entire stated reason for making SV melee in the first place was to make it distinct from the other specs and to give it a coherent identity. It’s never depended on another Hunter spec’s identity more than now (since BC, at least) and it’s never been less coherent. This exposes the whole melee SV adventure to be a farce.
Whatever point you’re trying to make here is lost in the broken English.
Uh, no. That’s nonsense. We aren’t obliged to play along with Blizzard’s stubborn childishness. Melee is the source of all of SV’s major problems since Legion in one way or another. And my posts have in fact highlighted those problems including this one. SV having such a confused direction and hijacking BM’s identity is a result of being melee. It sounds like you’re coming up with lines that sound good to you but don’t actually make sense given what my posts actually say.
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Well if old survival was so good then why do I barely remember it and Love new Mele Survival.