Pre-1.10 Alterac Valley

Yunzhu-mannoroth · January 13, 2019, 2:48am

Sadly, the removal of the challenging PvE content in AV lead to the downfall of PvP I the BG as well.

A true shame.

Fesz-cenarius · January 13, 2019, 3:04am

Cheater:

There is a video on warcraft movies of a 15 minute Alterac Valley zerg kill in patch 1.8.

Another zerg was 3 minutes and 40 seconds on 10-31-2006 but I’m too lazy to look up which patch happened during that time.

34 minute AV PuG group on 8-17-2005

Basically the moral of the story is that day long AV can be avoided, and no matter what version of the game you release, the best players are going to make quick work of it.

I couldn’t find anything from back in 1.6, but it doesn’t really matter. There is always a way to do things quickly. Hardcore players always figure it out. Every casual player has hardcore players to thank for providing the strategies necessary to kill bosses in instances. The same will be true in whatever version of AV we get, when the strategies necessary for 12 minute games come to light.

1.8 was when they implemented marks of honor.

That 3 minute 40 second zerg was months after 1.12 was released.

That 34 minute zerg was during patch 1.6.1, but the fact that even a zerg took over 30 minutes in that patch speaks volumes for the “ease”, or rather lack thereof, of zerging in that version of AV.

Does that mean that the 1.5 or 1.6 versions of AV will be zerg free? No, but the effectiveness of a zerg in those versions of AV is questionable, IMO.

IMO, the 1.5 version of AV was the best, with 1.6 running a close second. IMO, the 1.8 version and beyond, especially the 1.12 version, leave a lot to be desired, to say the least.

Ironsides-stormreaver · January 13, 2019, 3:11am

so not only were there MORE npcs but they also hit harder?

…are you even speaking from a statistically solid foundation where you can point to how many NPCs the revisioned turtle AV had versus 2005 AV? how hard they hit on each version?

Or are you one of those people that seems to think that whatever happens on classic WoW will be perfect, and not just a slightly cleaner version of what was packaged on recent private servers?

Gnocci-emerald-dream · January 13, 2019, 3:58am

People actually wonder why you are known as a troll.

Gnocci-emerald-dream · January 13, 2019, 4:01am

Dude, what exactly is your argument in this thread?

Banjaa-deathwing · January 13, 2019, 4:09am

Yes, the patch notes / nerf changes detailed that they reduced NPCs, then reduced them again and reduced their hp and “power” and then made a bunch of them non-elites.

Banjaa-deathwing · January 13, 2019, 4:10am

He’s arguing the PServers are a 99.99% faithful recreation of Vanilla, which anyone that’s done research knows to be false.

Xecks-stormrage · January 13, 2019, 4:11am

just popping in to say pservers are not vanilla and they wont be classic.

lets hope they give us 1.5 av in all its hellish glory.

Cheater-azjolnerub · January 13, 2019, 4:12am

Fesz:

Cheater:

There is a video on warcraft movies of a 15 minute Alterac Valley zerg kill in patch 1.8.

Another zerg was 3 minutes and 40 seconds on 10-31-2006 but I’m too lazy to look up which patch happened during that time.

34 minute AV PuG group on 8-17-2005

Basically the moral of the story is that day long AV can be avoided, and no matter what version of the game you release, the best players are going to make quick work of it.

I couldn’t find anything from back in 1.6, but it doesn’t really matter. There is always a way to do things quickly. Hardcore players always figure it out. Every casual player has hardcore players to thank for providing the strategies necessary to kill bosses in instances. The same will be true in whatever version of AV we get, when the strategies necessary for 12 minute games come to light.

1.8 was when they implemented marks of honor.

That 3 minute 40 second zerg was months after 1.12 was released.

That 34 minute zerg was during patch 1.6.1, but the fact that even a zerg took over 30 minutes in that patch speaks volumes for the “ease”, or rather lack thereof, of zerging in that version of AV.

Does that mean that the 1.5 or 1.6 versions of AV will be zerg free? No, but the effectiveness of a zerg in those versions of AV is questionable, IMO.

IMO, the 1.5 version of AV was the best, with 1.6 running a close second. IMO, the 1.8 version and beyond, especially the 1.12 version, leave a lot to be desired, to say the least.

What version allows me to hit exalted in the least amount of time possible? That’s the version I want so I don’t ever have to go back.

Banjaa-deathwing · January 13, 2019, 4:13am

Cheater:

Fesz:

Cheater:

There is a video on warcraft movies of a 15 minute Alterac Valley zerg kill in patch 1.8.

Another zerg was 3 minutes and 40 seconds on 10-31-2006 but I’m too lazy to look up which patch happened during that time.

34 minute AV PuG group on 8-17-2005

Basically the moral of the story is that day long AV can be avoided, and no matter what version of the game you release, the best players are going to make quick work of it.

I couldn’t find anything from back in 1.6, but it doesn’t really matter. There is always a way to do things quickly. Hardcore players always figure it out. Every casual player has hardcore players to thank for providing the strategies necessary to kill bosses in instances. The same will be true in whatever version of AV we get, when the strategies necessary for 12 minute games come to light.

1.8 was when they implemented marks of honor.

That 3 minute 40 second zerg was months after 1.12 was released.

That 34 minute zerg was during patch 1.6.1, but the fact that even a zerg took over 30 minutes in that patch speaks volumes for the “ease”, or rather lack thereof, of zerging in that version of AV.

Does that mean that the 1.5 or 1.6 versions of AV will be zerg free? No, but the effectiveness of a zerg in those versions of AV is questionable, IMO.

IMO, the 1.5 version of AV was the best, with 1.6 running a close second. IMO, the 1.8 version and beyond, especially the 1.12 version, leave a lot to be desired, to say the least.

What version allows me to hit exalted in the least amount of time possible? That’s the version I want so I don’t ever have to go back.

The difference would be fairly negligible I think, could probably even be faster with older versions for repeatable quests.

Cheater-azjolnerub · January 13, 2019, 4:16am

Banjaa:

Cheater:

Fesz:

Cheater:

There is a video on warcraft movies of a 15 minute Alterac Valley zerg kill in patch 1.8.

Another zerg was 3 minutes and 40 seconds on 10-31-2006 but I’m too lazy to look up which patch happened during that time.

34 minute AV PuG group on 8-17-2005

Basically the moral of the story is that day long AV can be avoided, and no matter what version of the game you release, the best players are going to make quick work of it.

I couldn’t find anything from back in 1.6, but it doesn’t really matter. There is always a way to do things quickly. Hardcore players always figure it out. Every casual player has hardcore players to thank for providing the strategies necessary to kill bosses in instances. The same will be true in whatever version of AV we get, when the strategies necessary for 12 minute games come to light.

1.8 was when they implemented marks of honor.

That 3 minute 40 second zerg was months after 1.12 was released.

That 34 minute zerg was during patch 1.6.1, but the fact that even a zerg took over 30 minutes in that patch speaks volumes for the “ease”, or rather lack thereof, of zerging in that version of AV.

Does that mean that the 1.5 or 1.6 versions of AV will be zerg free? No, but the effectiveness of a zerg in those versions of AV is questionable, IMO.

IMO, the 1.5 version of AV was the best, with 1.6 running a close second. IMO, the 1.8 version and beyond, especially the 1.12 version, leave a lot to be desired, to say the least.

What version allows me to hit exalted in the least amount of time possible? That’s the version I want so I don’t ever have to go back.

The difference would be fairly negligible I think, could probably even be faster with older versions for repeatable quests.

Okay then which version is the least annoying? Least amount of NPCs and no mine fields. Which version is that? That’s the version I want.

Xecks-stormrage · January 13, 2019, 4:18am

you dont seem like the kind of person who will enjoy classic. why not play retail? i mean it really would reward your type of personality.

Cheater-azjolnerub · January 13, 2019, 5:01am

Retail is trash, sry guy who has a level 120 “iron dwarf” whatever that is, warrior.

Mogar-stormrage · January 13, 2019, 5:17am

I can’t tell if you’re trolling, but your posts are a perfect indication of why Blizzard should strive for a 1.5 or 1.6 version of AV. Should they really try to appease players who’s mindset isn’t about having fun, getting immersed, and doing battle, but rather just how to grind the most efficiently and get exalted the quickest?

You say BfA is trash, and then advocate for systems that exist in BfA. There’s either massive hypocrisy here, or just pure trolling.

Cheater-azjolnerub · January 13, 2019, 5:25am

I’m advocating for a system that existed in vanilla. Whichever version in vanilla was the easiest to reach exalted with so I don’t have to return to the trash BG that is AV, is the one I want.

So you’re saying if I want something that is vanilla that you don’t like, it’s BfA?

Genius.

Mogar-stormrage · January 13, 2019, 5:31am

That’s fair, but I’m speaking more from a mindset or value point of view. Experience vs. convenience. Journey vs reward. 1.12 av has FAR more in common with bfa’s version of av than it does with 1.5 or 1.6. So my question is what sort of players do the devs want in Classic? Those concerned with the experience, or those who just want to blow through it as quickly and easily as possible? Because 1.5 and 1.12 avs are designed for fundamentally different types of players.

Now, obviously I can’t argue that 1.12 av isn’t authentic vanilla wow. So it’s not something that would keep me from playing the game. But it would keep me from playing av, as it offers virtually nothing I can’t already experience in Current WoW’s iteration. Which is to say…a mindless zerg where you don’t even interact with the enemy team.

By the way, is anything not trash to you? Xecks asked a great question: why are you even here?

Fesz-cenarius · January 13, 2019, 5:40am

Cheater:

Mogar:

Cheater:

Okay then which version is the least annoying? Least amount of NPCs and no mine fields. Which version is that? That’s the version I want.

I can’t tell if you’re trolling, but your posts are a perfect indication of why Blizzard should strive for a 1.5 or 1.6 version of AV. Should they really try to appease players who’s mindset isn’t about having fun, getting immersed, and doing battle, but rather just how to grind the most efficiently and get exalted the quickest?

You say BfA is trash, and then advocate for systems that exist in BfA. There’s either massive hypocrisy here, or just pure trolling.

I’m advocating for a system that existed in vanilla. Whichever version in vanilla was the easiest to reach exalted with so I don’t have to return to the trash BG that is AV, is the one I want.

So you’re saying if I want something that is vanilla that you don’t like, it’s BfA?

Genius.

1.5, 1.6 and 1.12 were all part of vanilla, so no, you are not asking for a version of AV that was not present in vanilla.

What you are asking, though, is for the “most convenient for you” version of AV, the one that will get you your cookie the fastest and with the least amount of effort possible. That is a very retail oriented mindset.

IMO, Classic should not be about convenience.

IMO, Classic should be about the experience, not the destination or the fastest way to get the cookie, with the least amount of effort possible.

That is just my opinion, though. YMOV–“Your mileage obviously varies”

Galdor-maelstrom · January 13, 2019, 5:44am

Just taking 1.5 or 1.6 AV is not the best way to go about giving the Classic community the best AV possible. Even if we just stick to changes that were made in Vanilla, you would be better off taking changes from a multitude of patches.

Here’s an example list of things I think would improve upon the 1.5 AV baseline:

Patch 1.6.0 (2005-07-12):

Each team will now gain additional bonus honor if their towers are not destroyed by the end of the map. The more towers that remained intact, the more honor received.
Korrak the Bloodrager has gained immunities to many different spell and ability effects.

Patch 1.7.0 (2005-09-22):

Fixed a bug that would cause players to stand up when a turnin was made in Alterac Valley.

Patch 1.8.0 (2005-10-10):

In order to keep teams in Alterac Valley more numerically balanced, players will now enter Alterac Valley on a one-for-one basis (i.e. if there are 30 players in the battleground for each side with 10 players in the Alliance queue and 2 players in the Horde queue, only two players from each team will be added, bringing the total to 32 per side).

Cheater-azjolnerub · January 13, 2019, 5:45am

Yes, vanilla is not trash to me

Also I never said old 1.5 AV is trash (I don’t think, I honestly don’t remember but nerdpoints if you find that quote) I just said I don’t prefer it over quickly finishing the rep and never returning to AV because I think AV sucks.

If we have 1.5 AV, then cool. All is well. I’ll just do that. It’ll take me longer to reach exalted especially if they break AV premading. If they don’t break AV premades, then it wont be an issue. Just a slight variation on the same problem.

What I like so much about vanilla is that it doesn’t cater to a specific type of player. Instead it caters to all kinds of types of players. People like me who like to complete goals as efficiently as possible, vanilla is good. People like you who like to RP in AV, vanilla is amazing for it.

People like Xechs, who like to be level 120 iron dwarves, vanilla is…

Wait no, retail is that guy’s dream come true.

The variety of demographic in vanilla creates a situation where you have some people who are at the top, and some at the bottom. You have some people who have gear, and some who don’t. Some people with tons of gold, some who are broke. And then there is a dynamic that can break through all of that with one simple action: PVP. Put me in the best gear in the world on any class in vanilla and put me in a duel against Stormx or Perplexity, or any of the great PVP’rs and force them into blue gear and I will die. I will die every single time.

THAT is an interesting game. A game where you can work so hard to be so ‘advanced’, and then be attacked by someone who has such an advanced skill in PVP that you are absolutely hopeless against them. Like a child. Like you were level 20 all over again and all the things you worked for were meaningless in that situation.

God vanilla is amazing.

From what I can tell about retail, you don’t have these differences. There isn’t much of a competition. You compare yourself to any other person, and they probably have just as much access to a certain level of power as anyone else.

Cheater-azjolnerub · January 13, 2019, 5:48am

Fesz:

Cheater:

Mogar:

Cheater:

Okay then which version is the least annoying? Least amount of NPCs and no mine fields. Which version is that? That’s the version I want.

I can’t tell if you’re trolling, but your posts are a perfect indication of why Blizzard should strive for a 1.5 or 1.6 version of AV. Should they really try to appease players who’s mindset isn’t about having fun, getting immersed, and doing battle, but rather just how to grind the most efficiently and get exalted the quickest?

You say BfA is trash, and then advocate for systems that exist in BfA. There’s either massive hypocrisy here, or just pure trolling.

I’m advocating for a system that existed in vanilla. Whichever version in vanilla was the easiest to reach exalted with so I don’t have to return to the trash BG that is AV, is the one I want.

So you’re saying if I want something that is vanilla that you don’t like, it’s BfA?

Genius.

That is a very retail oriented mindset.

No, that is a very selfish oriented mindset, which I’m okay with. It’s not my fault you decided to draw the connection to retail. I don’t know enough about retail to make the connection myself.