That doesn’t mean you need to lick their boot. In the grand scope of things people are also doing higher keys/content than this person, so it’s whatever.
My main point still stands re both builds being able to do up to 24’s, which is way beyond what most of the playerbase even cares for except maybe a tiny %. ( if you missed it go back up and actually read the thread )
Shouldn’t this be a disc priest thing?
More fake news. I checked their armory and they aren’t wearing boots. Zing.
You guys need to chill lol I didn’t offer an opinion on anything at all, just pointing out that the monks cited as non-faeline actually play FLS in keys but they logged out in raid build and attempted to clear up the confusion of that.
Shouldn’t brez be a druid thing? Oh wait paladin has it.
Shouldn’t heroism be a shaman thing? Oh wait evoker has it.
Spreading absorb niche to monk would make it so disc and monk are the absorb niche
I’m not saying to give monk power word shield but it already has absorb mechanics that could be improved and then add 1 additional unique mechanic to round it off (ideally a mechanic that is not like throughput absorbs but something that can be built up at the right time before burst damage so that you save the party from a massive stomp or something) that’s the kind of DR that people want in high keys.
Just buffing the shield from Yulon/Chi-Ji would be pretty nice considering they are on only 1 minute cooldowns.
heroism? eww, you shame your red background.
It’s because I don’t like the other word shrug
What if…instead of having to talent into Generous Pour, Renewing Mist gave enemies an ‘obscured’ view of whoever the monk had it on; i.e. a better version of Generous Pour with 6-8% reduced aoe dmg reduction, get rid of GP altogether and replace it with something that makes monks a more desirable healer in the community’s perception. Perhaps a brez, group shroud, more DR in the form of shields, etc.
or what if, just make song of chi-ji not put us in combat when we aoe incap mobs.
having an option to potentially pick ring or song if no priest could be a decent compromise
or making bounce back be able to mitigate the hit that proc it like will of the necropolis for bdks. instead of only mitigating damage after the hit that proc the buff which in most cases is generally inconsequential, or something similar to will of the necro for hp threshold, would help all 3 monks specs with some passive survivability outside of cds, esp brew from spike damage since their damage intake profile is similar to a bdk.
3min fort brew from shadowlands is also another decent qol. why does mw have to suffer the same 6 min fort brew as brewmasters, when we dont have ways to reduce the cdr of brews like brewmasters.
No talk of brez or lust?
Eyyy let’s celebrate a little y’all
They increasing the shield by 100% in dungeon content so that’s a win
Mistweaver
Ancient Teachings now transfers 150% of damage done (was 135%). Does not apply in PvP combat.
Yu’lon’s Grace can now stack up to 15% of maximum health (was 10%) and stacks 3% per second (was 2%).
Chi Cocoon’s absorb is increased by 100%.
Enveloping Breath’s healing decreased by 12%.
Developers’ notes: We’re shifting more of Celestial Harmony’s throughput into Chi Cocoon, with the intent of keeping the talent’s power level similar in raid, and increased in dungeon content.
I don’t hate it. I wouldn’t mind seeing a shift to absorbs in general as long as it doesn’t drastically change either play style.
For example I like the idea suggested that overhealing could be converted to an absorb Dr on those party members. They could rework Chi Burst to include some kind of absorb. Let that be our niche.
Here’s where my rework would start. We need externals and we need more cooldowns. And we need to be a mobile healer, like the class fantasy states. No more planting our feet and doing turret healing.
3% DR on something. My choice would be renewing mist.
Instant cast vivify. If it needs charges to balance that, then so be it. Give us 3 charges of vivify, recharge time like 5-9 seconds. Also, vivifies cast through soothing mist don’t consume a charge.
Reduced cast time on Enveloping Mist. It can be 1.5s like Vivify was.
Lower the cooldown of Life Cocoon to 45s
Life Cocoon applies 10% DR to target for 15s
Rising Sun Kick now reduces the damage of the target by 10%
Corrosive Dosage Vivify casts leave behind a mist that damages enemies within 5 yards for 25% of the vivify.
Ancient Teachings is now baseline No Essence Font or Faeline Stomp required to activate it.
Remove Faeline Stomp Ancient Concordance and Awakened Faeline are now baseline and no longer require the faeline.
Change Jade Serpent Statue For 15s, the statue duplicates all healing done by the mistweaver. Statue’s output is split between injured party members within 30 yards of the statue. 30s cooldown.
I’ve also been playing around in my head with an idea, not sure how to express it. But basically it’s a bit annoying that Prevoker got an ability that basically applies stagger to a target, and as monks, that’s something that we should have gotten before they did.
That said, there’s no reason two classes can’t have similar things. So we should get a spell that is an external and reads something like:
Zen Consciousness: Places the target into an elevated state of consciousness, allowing them to shrug off attacks, delaying a portion of incoming damage, instead taking it over 10 seconds. While affected, any heals received from the mistweaver also reduce the amount of delayed damage by the same amount healed.
Gonna give constructive criticism (which y’all can do for my ideas too)
First, your changes are too large. Monk is slightly behind but not 20-30% behind. The changes monk needs are not to throughput but we need more utility and we need the dead talents in our tree cleaned up. Otherwise, it’s already a well rounded class with multiple play styles as already discussed.
Can you explain why Life Cocoon and now the buffed Chi cocoon are insufficient externals? With Mists of Life / Nourishing Chi, are there really situations when Life Cocoon is insufficient external?
With Chrysallis talent, do you really need Life Cocoon more often than that? 45s is an extremely short cooldown for an external and would necessitate a nerf for Life Cocoon so it would be less valuable as an external. Even without Chrysallis I haven’t ever really been like “oh I really wish Life Cocoon was available but it’s on CD”
What exactly do you have in mind? 1 minute celestial is super strong. Instead of more cooldowns, get rid of Jade Bond because it’s a joke conduit that was used only if you had nothing else but never provides enough CD reduction or healing value to be taken.
Realistically, if they were to add a CD to monk, they should just buff Rushing Jade Wind with its current CD (45 sec is ridiculous for the HPS on this thing — never taken) to make it so that it is actually a passive burst healing option that does significant HPS during its time frame instead of a trickle heal. This is a profile that monk needs a little help with, some completely passive healing on a CD, but as for major CDs, what isn’t covered by what we have so far?
I think this is an exaggeration and also not something everyone wants. Mistweaver is cool because it has fistweavinf as well as the turret mistweaver style. I might play the turret style if it had more damage options such as Damaging Essence Font, Emperora Capacitor, etc. I like SooM and it’s interactions but it just needs to be fleshed out a bit more imo.
This is literally Lenience from disc priest, which is a talent that should be replaced for them. 3% DR is a silly throughout talent that has no value in terms of game design. There is no fun for having 3% DR - make something else. It also doesn’t provide impact in high intensity moments, it’s equivalent to a constant trickle heal.
As someone who was originally really against the 10s instant vivify, I actually really like it and think that the current version is very balanced. Having purely instant vivify would necessitate a nerf in its coefficient and would create a spammy class where you have to press vivify multiple time. Much better to have a chunkier vivify that you press less. Additionally, stay priority favors haste in most content so casting vivify really is not a big deal in 90% of cases.
A better fix I have proposed is:
Let Thunder Focus Tea be spent on SooM which makes it so that you can cast it while moving for 10 seconds. This is a very fair and balanced option which requires an opportunity cost but would allow healing while moving when needed.
I don’t think that this needs to happen. It feels good that EvM is slightly longer as it is more powerful, the HoT is significant and the bonus to healing even more so. It’s a chunky spell and feels chunky. Also as far as I know, having a faster more spammable EvM was unpopular in BFA.
As discussed, how is life cocoon insufficient on its own and with its boosting talents?
Do you really understand the implications of your proposal? A lot of them are crazy OP. This one in particular is silly overpowered no offense. Imagine just making boss damage reduced by 10% — bonkers. Even the 3% here would be incredibly strong and possibly OP.
Yes should absolute be a talent for MW damage options that aren’t fistweaving
I agree it should be baseline but disagree that you shouldn’t have to trigger it. It’s flavorful and also necessary to keep it balanced. It needs an activation of some sort and this works well honestly and creates a dynamic to the rotation
Remove Faeline Stomp. Absolutely. As for Ancient Concordance and Awakened Faeline, making them both baseline is really OP. Also, Ancient Concordance really doesn’t fit with monk theme anyways it shouldn’t really be a talent because it causes tons of problems with scaling for ATOTM. Either AT has a good value for ST or it’s tuned too low because of ancient concordance cleave. It’s bad. A good alternative is to bake them into a single talent so we can have more choices in the final tier of talents instead of sucking up 4 points into FL → AC → AFL.
Again, running into just super OP changes with no drawbacks or choices by the player.
Your proposal is literally a 50% buff to all healing, and is essentially identical to Cloudburst Totem for shaman. Not a great mechanic. Not very interactive. Just set and forget. A better option I’ve proposed is called Rising Chi. Casting Renewing Mist and 3 ticks of SooM grant a stack of Rising Chi. At 10 stacks, the next time you summon the Jade Statue it comes to life and breaths Jade fire on Ally’s and enemies. This version allows you to watch when you are going to gain the burst healing / damage and place the statue down at the right time to either heal or do damage.
I don’t understand why so many want to have a stagger mechanic for MW. It just doesn’t make sense without a purify mechanic (which actually you are one of the first to provide a mechanic via healing reducing the delayed damage by the same amount) but it’s just too OP. Not only are you preventing lethal damage but also basically doing double healing for 10 seconds.
Overall, your changes are just too large and there are lots of other changes to existing abilities that can be made that would be better for the class in general (fixing dead talents such as Chi Wave / Burst, Tear of Morning, Zen Pulse, Jade Bond, etc)
And to incorporate better damage options for turret style MW instead of FW, and making it so fistweavers can handle burst damage profiles through dealing damage instead of just maintenance healing.
Sorry if it sounds like I sound like I’m criticizing, trying to provide constructive feedback and approach your changes as a theorycrafter
A different kind of idea would be to redesign Faeline Stomp into a Rising Sun Kick replacer, losing a bit of damage from RSK for added EF bolts off activation. It might be a little too much bloat on one spell though, since that would be a third passive attached to RSK.
Numbers passes can be done to balance anything. And obviously, new talents like the ones I listed would take the place of dead talents.
That said, while your opinion is perfectly valid, I’m not going to engage with someone who feels that large changes aren’t needed for a spec that has been dead last in m+ for two full expansions (maybe longer, i didn’t play Legion or BFA).
I’m open to this.
My biggest criticism with Faeline is that the mechanic is designed to be something you want to reset so you can press it more often…. But it’s mana cost is just prohibitive, really destroys any fun for the ability.
I wouldn’t mind (as much) having to stand on the Faeline if my Faeline resets actually felt impactful and if I could actually press it when it resets instead of having to be super careful and think about whether I have enough mana or if the mobs will live long enough for me to generate another reset before moving onto the next pull.
The design loop and accompanying talents increase the reset chance but for what you cannot even press it.
IMO there’s so much they could do it make it a good ability (I like the idea of aftershocks that deal increasing damage and healing pulses for each Faeline cast on top of eachother) but primarily just drop the mana cost to be spammable every time it resets because the whole point is to make it reset but with its current implementation it might as well not even reset
i agree with this, its annoying because the way u use fls is unintuitive to how procs work in the game in general, cause u see the thing lighted up and u like oh a proc, i should use it.
but u using it as a proc, is actually working against you because u only want to press it for the effect/buffs and not the throughput of the spell itself.
at this point u might as well just make it just like consecration for hpal and just have it be on a 10sec cd or even less (outside of pvp, pvp there is a talent to lower the cd of the spell) if you want it to be a ground effect augmentation ability.
or make the button worth pressing, and having the buffs be an additional bonus to u refreshing the buff (like ret aura damage fade, but huge upfront damage/heal value for AT so u treat it like a burst healing window to encourage pooling of totm + rsk instead of lololol i win sck 1 button spam for aoe, and pittance healing transfer for single target if players want to play the im a melee healer and i hate pressing heal buttons playstyle)
also im worried for next season when there is an eventuallity of increased stamina buffs again and classes (not just monks) do not have stamina nodes on the class tree vs those who do. the stamina difference between those specs that do vs those that dont in full raid buffs scenario is as wide as 100k between the lowest and the highest