In 22-24 keys on my Paladin, they take about 20-25% of my hp, compared to 50+ on my monk. Much easier to just play through them and keep melee uptime, whether i play ret or holy. Plate certainly doesn’t get two shot.
They need to buff the 3 defensives we have a bit imo. Close to heart should be a straight up 8% DR at this point too and they refund the 8% healing back into a buff for us. ( that alone would be such a decent change for us )
Nevermind all that though… we get mana tea mini games next patch. So fun /s
2 Likes
Personally I’m not to much into buffing the defensives, for raid at least we are unkillable in unavoidable damage (most healers are, granted) though obviously any buff is good.
I’d much rather we get focus on some pain areas like our melee range - Hpally is twice as tanky, and they got a talent with their rework to get 8 yard range instead of standard 5 - not counting they already have plenty of ranged abilities, like judgement and hammer of wrath, holy shock… Shouldnt’t be to far-fetched to have monks “punching the air” to get a +3 or even +5 yard?
Also not a big fan of the Mana Tea rework. We already got enough on our plates, even if it ends up being tuned as a buff.
1 Like
I also find in raids we are beefy enough. My issue was more in m+ going over +20’s in S1 it started to get weird for unavoidable damage on some tyran bosses, where even popping one or even 2 defensives didn’t feel like it was doing much.
This would be a huge QoL change and Ive thought to myself " why cant we" before - but every good idea presented on here will ultimately ignore it. Like they are ignoring those pain areas you bring up.
An ability that “builds up” chi via TP/Bok to give us more tankiness and then “expel it” to do some damagebased on stacks would be immensely more fun/helpful that what they have presented with the new mana tea.
After this tier they should have just baked the 2 set mana regen into us basline, buff SOTC, keep MT how it is - and we would have been fine mana wise. Most of us got through S1 without Soulfang/Rashoks just fine, sure it was a bit rough but generally there was always an evoker around to give us the mana buff - and there was a decent mana trinket.
Im losing hope for our rework tbh, I imagine im not the only MW frustrated. At least in 10.0.5/10.1.0/10.1.5 we got some small buffs but now it’s all hands on deck nerfing the godlike paly rework and failing to balance the evoker with the rest of the game, so we fall to the side…again.
Other than fixing our mana issues, I don’t know what people are expecting or why they would be expecting a rework at all.
They did a lot of reworking in season 1 and the addition of SG has been huge.
Of the three specs, WW needs help the most because aoe ToD being the focus point is really lame.
There are a lot of other specs in the game I feel need updates before MW.
1 Like
I should have clarified it was the class tree that needs reworking, not the spec or spec tree. Class tree desperately needs a rework or to reduce filler/placeholders, unison should be moved to that tree to make JSS not feel useless, plus many of the other ideas people have been throwing around on here the last 4+ months. Sheilun’s, and the additional talents added to it in S1 were great and I fully agree there. Don’t get me started on the horrible class tree capstones.
I wouldn’t call what they did “reworking” though, they just re added SG because we came into the expac desperately needing that aoe burst in m+ and they understood that. They also QOL changed AT to do less overhealing. Again not a “rework” imo. Outside of that we got trickle buffs to keep us “in line” with various other healers. Mostly slight HPS buffs that didnt address any of the concerns or issues in m+.
I dont ww or Brew so no comment there but I assume a class tree rework could potentially benefit them and help all 3 specs at the same time. ( ex better WW dps talents in 1/3 of the class tree that MW can maybe pick up would mean MW wont be as behind on dmg as other healers, for example. - or- Better tank talents in the class tree that allow MW to be less squish or help the group be less squish would be invaluable even as MW in m+ )
Looking at just healers here and just M+ scenarios. We need a group dr, soothe, or some other kind of utility. Obviously there are a lot of specs that need reworks/updates in various areas/content but as this is a monk forum…well…yeah ima talk about monk.
3 Likes
I feel like the class tree just needs to reduce the number of stupid expel harm talents and maybe make the capstones more interesting, primarily the Xuen statute which is fairly boring. I also feel the 70% damage buff to RSK talent is silly because it’s so mandatory.
The class tree has 3 defensive cooldowns, and a lot of other best things like no CD teleport for 10 seconds, 8% healing and 4% avoidance, etc.
I highly doubt monks are going to get a battle rez or hero or sooth or some other utility people think will make them meta that obviously isn’t true. Resto Druids have vers buff, battle rez, soothe, hibernate/cyclone for easy Incorporal x2, vortex, etc and aren’t meta right now.
The meta is weird because of aug voker, not to mention the very strong mage/paly reworks that gave them tons of tools to deal with lots of problems. Not to mention the meta groups that are running sans healer because of other specs/classes bringing those kinds of defensives ( mage ) But Im not talking about being meta, you brought that up.
Not looking for MW to be meta myself though. Im just looking for some kind of group DR, slight damage buff, soothe, or any of the slight qol changes a bunch of us have been asking for since Legion. I and others explained it all before in a ton of different posts that we dont need to be meta but something is missing from MW. Playing another healer these past 2 weeks really has shown me how bad it is for MW.
R sham can literally delete the afflicted mobs solo. It’s annoying to do both on MW, they couldnt even make AT feed into them, or SG, or cleave healing from Viv, which can be 3 of our larger sources of healing. ( just as an example ). MW literally doesnt bring anything impactful to an m+ dungeon that cant be covered by many other classes/specs - and we also have to work about 33% harder than other healers to be where every other healer is.
Lust has never been a problem, because with 5 people in a group you can still cover it easily, B rez should be a thing all healers can do in modern wow but is whatever because it’s non issue once you get the engi bracers, or if you run with people who can b rez. Ive never felt like we NEEDED B rez or lust myself.
They need to make mystic touch also affect magic damage, buff chi burst or remove it., etc. Tons of things need addressing in the class tree.
The 3 defensives are nice, but often you need to combine 2 of them in higher m+ to survive some tyranical mechanics due to monk squish. They need to be buffed some. Fort brew specifically should be a lower CD for what it does. ID trade off the health buff for just a straight up better DR. Diffuse magic is godlike, second dispel there is nice. No complaints there. Dampen Harm could be better.
It’s worth mentioning a class tree rework could also help define and separate the CF MW and Fey Line MW builds better if they did it right. CF MW can grab the basic healer talents and maybe Fey Line people opt more into some of the WW talents of the tree for more damage which could transfer into more healing, etcetc. ( consequently it could help WW by giving them more self healing if they did the tree like that, or give Brew monk whatever they are missing ).
Comparing R sham to MW, the class trees are far apart design wise. In MW you have tons of placeholder talents, or there are talents that are just generally useless ( chi burst/wave, eye of the tiger, disable in pve, TTS, Elusive mists, every expel harm talent, hasty provocation used to be baked into provoke and didnt ever need to be separated, windwalking is useless and it’s worse they went and gave AugVokers the same thing but 10% movement, all the capstones, ToD talents are stupid and should be baked into ToD. )
In the Shaman tree im always looking to shift a few points around for whatever dungeon because certain talents do better. Id say the shaman class tree is much more successful and true to how they intended the trees to be designed for DF than what MW has, where we swap a few points to pick up whatever utilit for whatever dungeon/raid boss. MW I havent had to change anything in quite some time, especially in the class tree. I think that has stayed the same for me since DF started.
The only thing I really miss that MW has is mass dispel/revival and tiger’s lust being a snare removal. ( it’s annoying not being able to dispel the barrel in freehold for example ) Ring of Peace. CF/Single target healing is something I miss a bit, but only because Ive gotten a string of bad Druid tanks that cant push buttons on my sham while pushing lower keys the last 2 weeks. ( Sham still has 10% melee dr totem for tanks and bleeds, 10% health buff, proper CBT charging and popping, protection totem rez/another health buff, Earth Elemental, slow totem+fast totem to help them kite, Natures Swiftness, SLT, etc )
Mana wise Id say R sham feels a bit better than MW monk. MW feels a bit better because of 2 set but they should have nerfed the costs of EF/Viv, and instead of nerfing the cost of EnvMist just buff it to feel more like it did in Legion. Coming off MW managing mana on R sham is immensely easier though, plus I can bring more mana to other healers through Mana Totem ( and get a neat haste/spell cost reduction buff for 10 sec ).
Main thing I hate on my shaman is it’s not so fluid to throw in casted DPS compared to melee, but acid rain exists and big D healer damage doesn’t matter till the highest of keys, beyond 20+.
I say Blizz has till S3 to come out with something for MW other than mana tea minigames ( which wont add anything significant ), or Im swapping officially because MW feels like…outdated…at this point for the game we are playing. ( mostly because they ignore the spec )
2 Likes
It’s funny because of the classes I play shaman is the one where I feel the class tree is the worse. Like a third of the tree is about moving around most of the useless totems especially as an elements/enhance.
Enhance shaman is the one class in the entire game that can get both afflicted with 1 GCD, none of the 6 other healing specs can it’s not some slight on MW. With clouded focus I normally can heal one in 2.5 GCDs is needed because a dps didn’t get the other one. Or depending on the pack I’ll choose to heal mine instead because my dispel is more important like in UR skeleton packs.
We aren’t going to agree on how much MW needs changed, enjoy your shaman.
Idk it feels like this is an exaggeration
This isn’t similar to what I do.
For me how I handle it (can do for every single one the same and save CDs for emergencies or weave CDs for efficiency)
Ramp Enveloping Mist on 2-3 targets, RSK, REM x2 → Vivify x1, everyone is now >80%, use Essence font for the cannons. Done
Don’t even need chi ji, cocoon, or Revival, but to technically be more efficient you should Chiji every other one and just instantly top everyone off with the first blackout kick (having 3 tiger palms stacked up w/ mastery build the first blackout kick is enough healing to top the entire party off from 50% and it will grant you the EvM for whoever is lowest that you immediately extend with Tea/Rising Mist) and then also get the tier set bonus vivify boost on top of all of that
There are classes worse of than MW, that’s for sure, but I fail to see that as a reason on not to discuss what we, the players, percieve as faultings in the spec. If Windwalker mains wants changes, noone stopping them from giving feedback (like they have)
No reason to stagger feedback, even if by logic they can’t rework/change them all at the same time
1 Like
I don’t really think the spec is a failure like some people think.
It just needs a loving pass through the tree to fix some of the underperforming talents (ex Rushing Jade Wind, Chi Burst / Wave) and rewire some of the connections like allowing Awakened Faeline, Invoker’s Delight, and Rising Mist together which is currently impossible
Finally I would like to see monk become a DR/Absorb healer by boosting the absorb of the celestial to be comparable to mass barrier / the aug’s shield as well as providing a little bit more absorb from another mechanic such as by overheals so that is our thing instead of brez or heroism
4 Likes
All of this! I just don’t understand how people can say that MW monks healing is weak. Unless they are relying solely on maintenance heals from feyline or expecting their individual heals to be sufficient. MW is built in a way that all of their heals are symbiotic. They are meant to be used in combinations.
2 Likes
I could get on board with this. Blizzard, let’s do this ^
2 Likes
I think this is part of why I like MW. There are different ways and styles to tackle the problem which is cool.
I don’t use Chi-Ji and I don’t stack mastery so my way is different but it works. Your way is different and also works.
1 Like
I use Yu’lon and I do stack mastery and my way works as well. It’s great!
3 Likes
Yea I completely agree and hope the devs will recognize the incredible build diversity that already exist when they implement changes like this Mana Tea thing, which really does affect things
It’s also why I said it really just needs a loving comb through talents to emphasize the already existing great build diversity
1 Like
I don’t mind having to dodge around stuff while punchy monk healing, but stuff that straight forces you completely out of melee (either randomly or at critical healing moments - which random effects will eventually do) is frustrating
Even a - you can hit other things in your faeline as if they were in melee for a bit, would be helpful
2 Likes
I don’t see it needing full rework - but better end caps would be nice.
Also the mana (as you mentioned, and which is being addressed).
I’d like a second charge for faeline - to make it more forgiving with pug tanks.
Not too much else.
I’ll have to try that, sounds like a cool build option.
1 Like