Yes exactly! The way they have it now is that there is a real consequence to making the choice to switch. You have to regrind some of it. Just like if you choose to leave a relationship with a person, the new relationship will require time and effort to build. There are consequences that can’t be removed.
It its as easy as switching talents it’s meaningless. If i can be in the Necro covenant but ahve any ability i choose and wear armor from any of the other ones there is no real connection between me and necrolords.
most people who give feedback on things such as yelp or reviews on products are eitehr paid or giving negative feedback. happy people rarely feel the need to give feedback because they are satisfied. Which is why most of the people who are here commenting have done so.
It is also why i am compelled to be here too. I like the system and think it will be fun and i know there are a lot of otehrs that feel the same so I am here to give a voice to them that we are down to try it out.
That’s what my analogy was addressing. Just because people CAN switch relationships freely, it doesn’t mean that staying loyal to one person becomes meaningless.
It actually means more if you choose to stay loyal when you COULD switch.
But you are robbed of nothing if you WANT to play immersively so long as you are given the OPTION to do so.
Robbing others of freedom and options because you feel slighted that they can make them and as if your own choices matter less because they n HAVE choice is…just plain selfish.
Right but where we disagree is that its easy to switch partners…
Building a strong and fruitful relationship with a person, for me, take time and effort and no small amount of it where as you seem to be inferring that its just a flip of the a coin or as easy as switching a talent in wow.
you can’t help but make it about you. Its not about you. its not about robbing others of anything.
I’m simply stating that it is fun for ME because having long term benifits and consequences makes the choice meaningful and fun, and there are many people i’ve talked to who like it too.
I’m not inferring that it’s just a flip of a coin.
Staying loyal to a covenant still requires work.
My point is that my loyalty and commitment isn’t meaningless just because I have the option to change whenever I want. That applies to covenants and real relationships.
I haven’t chosen yet because aesthetics mean jack when it comes to gameplay and we don’t know which one will be strongest yet for each class. If I had to choose right now it would be venthyr because no way am i gimping myself in M+ with friends for a silly xmog.
I see your point that the choice matter because you have options and you are certainly right that choosing NOT to do something is infact meaningful.
Its also meaningful to choose something in the beginning knowing that backing out of it is not easy. Commitments are fun and exciting and sometimes making the wrong commitment is good as a learning process and understanding yourself and your priorities. If its easy to back out of a commitment then you don’t experience any of that
The analogy falls flat to me because no matter if you decide to change out of a relationship there was effort and a fair amount of it. You had to meet/talk to the new individual (some level of effort)
Theres no effort requirement to change if its as easy as talent swapping.
But some of us lose the benefit of seeing others punished needlessly.
This is what you don’t understand.
Players like Ralph, argorwal, asborn, and myself want others to be forced to play this game the way we envision an rpg. If they deviate from that, we want them punished for it.
Azerite reforming costs was a first step. Covenants takes it further.
I truly believe in the value of commitment and meaningful choice.
I will still play if its flexible but it wont be as much fun for me and that has nothing to do with limiting otehr people.
I am simply expressing that there are some of us out there that see these choices as cool and commitment to a sepcific cause as fun and to freely switch anytime as not as much fun because it removes some of the value of the choice.
And I also dont think it will play out to have as much effect on min/maxing as people expect. Although i do expect that there will likely be one of the four for each class that is clearly worse, the other three will likely be comparable. Two of the covenants give you mobility and the otehr two give a defensive (i beleive, its been a while since i read them.) I do expect these choices to effect PvE more than PvP but this is all speculation.
For some sure. But not for everyone. I don’t feel I actually gain anything for forcing others to play that way. I still get all the benefit I want as an rp player.
Sounds like you would still get missy off the benefit on your end from a flexible system, and the idea of “permanence” would just need to be self imposed.
The relationship analogy was focused around you saying that the choice of loyalty was meaningless just because you can change things.
To the idea of switching and maintaining what you earned, the military would make a better example.
When service members swapped branches of the military in vietnam, they didn’t have to start all over from rank1. They maintained their rank.
But if it’s flexible and you never change, the ONLY thing that is actually different is the fact that others are punished.
THAT difference and punishment IS the value.
If you find commitment to a covenant fun - then you could still do that in a flexible system. There’s nothing forcing you to switch.
Taking away the ability to freely switch from those who would actually get a measurable benefit is punishing for them - and that, for us is the benefit since it’s the only difference.
If it isn’t a benefit for you - then it’s a selfish desire for something you could still get in a flexible system at the cost of a lot of suffering and tangible in-game negative impacts for many other people.
I think thats kind of where this thread is at. There isn’t a homogeneous agreement that it’s one way or the other. I can see there are people on this thread that are RP’s that feel like you do that their choice feels the same with self imposed limitations. I also know that the people I play with in game think its cool to have to commit to a covenant and for the commitment to feel semi-permanant. All of those players also like to play at a high level too so although they know they might make a small sacrafice in power to play something they embrace that choice and the uneasy feeling that they might make the wrong one. It’s immersive because it feels like life. Rarely do we get to make a choice with no consequences or that we can turn back on easily. If you go to multiple job interviews and more than one want to hire you a choice has to be made and its exciting and fulfilling. For some of us anyways.
I Just wanted to say that there are people out there that like the idea of a commited choice and what that means for their gameplay.
I hope that more players find that they get a rush out of finally making that leap and deciding on a covenant.
At no point did i say i wouldn’t change though.
I can’t help you if you simply deny something i say to be true for myself and others i’ve talked ot personally.
Consequences are a part of cause and effect and are not a punishment I’m sorry you see it that way.
Self imposed consequences are not the same.
It is not selfish of me to give my opinion on what I think is fun. I’m not controlling the game nor am i telling people they have to see it my way unlike you.
I am simply giving my feedback that my opinion is that part of a meaningful choice is that before i make that choice i know that there are pros and cons and i have to live with my decision.
Your blanket statements that assume the position of everyone are eroneous