Exactly.
Only players like Ralph, Crimson, and all the other sadists would be impacted because they specifically want to force others to play their version of the game.
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The part where I like it - subjective
The part where it has an effect on other players one way or the other - objective
I’m not arguing that me thinking its better for RP is not subjective. I’m telling you that you both made the argument that it HAS NO EFFECT on RP players is compelely eroneous and infact an opinion and therefore subjective. The existence of a effect is objective, it doesn’t care about my opinion or yours. It does effect the game for some people and you both argued that it doesn’t change the game for anyone. My subjective feelings towards whether or not theres meaningful choice are evidence that the objective existence of an effect that you argued there isn’t, does exist.
You can’t say there is no effect on RP gameplay if there is for some people. That is not opinion.
Meaning is always subjective. What you find meaningful others may find trivial or needlessly restrictive.
So being forced to choose the least worst of options that have arbitrarily been created is what makes your gameplay “meaningful”.
Others would rather continue to play different types of content as they always have than have you force that definition down their craws.
While there have been a small number of self-declared sadists who openly claim to want this new system because they will enjoy the suffering of others, I think shadowlands is designed to appeal not to them, but to control freaks, specificially the tiny number of control freaks that want this very minority splinter type of fake choice and don’t care whether they actually play the game.
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But objectively - there isn’t an effect on gameplay for RP players. Subjectively there is - but many RP players have already said that they don’t even care if others can change covenants as long as they’re still able to pick one and be loyal to it.
You still didn’t answer his question - what can you not do if the game made covenants swappable?
The answer is nothing - there would be no difference. The only difference would be subjective based on whether the player wanted to force other to play the game a particular way.
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The reason you cant be all the covenants at once or in a split second switch is the same reason it makes it interesting to not just have all races play all classes or pick one faction or the other.
Everything exists as a balance of what you can do, and what you can’t do.
That doesn’t answer his question. Nor does it support your point.
You’re just bringing in new stuff into the conversation.
The answer is there you just cant see it.
Its not what you CAN do but what you CAN’T do as a result.
I’m not talking about some sadistic feeling that i want to limit what OTHER players can do. Its that it makes it better for a lot of people to know they can feel the impact of a decision for themselves and that feeling is robbed when you can just do anything.
So there it is. Thats what you can’t do. You can’t feel the impact of making a decision that has long term benifits and consequences.
Its hard for people to understand who live in a RIGHT NOW mindset that long term benifits and consequences feel good.
I am so sick of this entitled RP attitude like you people matter in game design
RP is the last thing they should consider in game design
And every RP player should be forced to go into another forum like their servers are so we don’t have to put up with the echo chamber opinions
very subjective haha
wild to think that RP players don’t matter in and "RP"G lmaoooooo
We are built into the game intrisicly because of the genre.
You are not.
I’m going to play them all and they all look fun. Can’t say which order yet but I’m looking forward to figuring that out! 
But we can.
Just like today, lots of players I know don’t change talents or use flying - because they think that fits their style of “rp”.
They don’t want those things removed from the game or restricted for others - because they have the ability to play the game how they want.
Same for me - I like the idea of staying loyal to your first covenant pick, but I don’t need everyone else to be forced into a restrictive system in order for me to gain that subjective benefit.
A flexible system doesn’t take away my ability to:
The only way a flexible system impacts me as an rp player is if I want to force others to play a particular way.
You can RP not matter what the content is
No everyone RPs
There for they don’t need to build anything for you because I’m pretty sure the point of doing RP is to let your imagination do most the work
All they need to do is inject a world and a story line and you do the rest
Game systems effect every type of player
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Yes it does because benifits are one side but consequences are the other. There is no real consquence if I can just switch at a moments notice. No consequences means less impact.
I personally don’t mind being forced into 1 covenant and 1 Ability set…i just don’t want them to be the same system.
That said- we NEED all classes for all races since 5ever ago. The melting pot of the Horde and Alliance should have resulted in that no later than Legion.
But back to covenants,- four lock in choices is NOT choice, certainly not compared to any previous expansion system. We haven’t had real FREEDOM of CHOICE since late Wrath and it just keeps getting worse and worse, continually throttling players into a most obvious best choice.
Even players who arent top 1% players wont be getting into mythics or rbgs or casually competing in arenas successfully without going with the obvious choice.
Given lfg is a huge contributor to that problem, but if lfg isnt going away, players need the fluidity to be able to adjust to circumstance and different kinds of gameplay at want/need
No it doesn’t.
The consequences you talk about exist only if I sacrifice my “rp” principles and opt to change.
If I stick with my first pick, the consequences exist for as long as I stay with that covenant regardless of what others are doing and regardless of what I could do.
no, the existence of a consequence relies on the inability to remove that consequence.
That consequence is effectively removed by the ability to chose for it to not be there. Self inflicted consequences are not the same
We can rp- but we cant rp AND say- arena, or rbg, or run mythics. Commiting to our rp choice may sever us from the actual gameplay many rpers participate in- especially when we participate in several kinds of gameplay.
We usually get by with “good enough” and do non front line mythics or arenas or normal raids, but in this case picking anything other than venthir is going to keep folks out of mythics and get them edged out in arenas if they want to stay true to rp and that just feels bad and isn’t fun.
Covenant will not be the single defining factor in who makes it to the top 5-10% of players.
Wait and see. There will be top ranked players who are not the standard simmed covenant.
No it isn’t.
Just like the consequences of not changing talents or to not use flying today. Those consequences exist and aren’t removed just because those players could fly or switch talents - they exist every that they play the game.
Just like in real life, the feeling of loyalty and commitment to a partner isn’t robbed just because you can dump someone and jump into another relationship. The consequences of monogamy still exist even though people aren’t bound to that lifestyle.
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I dont want to wait and see whether any player in any percentile can overcome this highly restrictive, so much less than fun system.
I want covenants severed from whatever the gameplay fresh gimmick of SL is, asap, so we KNOW no one is going to be forced to make choices that aren’t fun.