It’s a strange argument that, “I can’t restrain myself, so no one should have the option.”
11 Likes
For me there are better games when it comes to solo content, group content and raids have always been for me the strength of wow. While I’m not saying that solo content shouldn’t be a thing catering to solo players for me should be done mostly to encourage them into going into group content once they feel they’re ready.
Because I dislike that option as I very much dislike doing LFR but if for whatever reason rewards in there are good then I will do them because my fun is progressing into hard content and for that to go faster doing everything I can to help is good for me. There are some level where this is unpractical but LFR is that easy and accessible. Moreover considering that they’ve done this with normal and heroic because it makes a lot of sense to not want to raid multiple difficulties to further the purpose of progress.
We’ve had our Thorgast, our warfronts or island expeditions and artifact power. People that did that kind of content know about this. Adding to the chore list because there are powers you’d want in there is not fun, playing the game optimally should be fun.
You wouldn’t be eligible to LFR loot if you cleared normal and if you go in a normal run and have done LFR before you wouldn’t be eligible for loot. This would be boss based.
1 Like
It’s also factual that lfr would be a way for casuals who can’t play cata on a schedule to raid.
9 Likes
Its why I liked it.
I can give up time here and there for raid. The question is when. I have found old school lfg this gets spotty as hell for hits.
I ghost game events often enough I jsut go for guilds that say they are social. And mean it. IRL stuff gets my 100% guaranteed “I will be there”. games? nope. the former matters way more to me.
1 Like
Add LFR… but not the LFR difficulty. LFR puts you into Normal. Issues solved.
The funny thing about all the people complaining is… well… LFR was add in Cata… and is still currently in the live retail version of the game. Probably one of the FEW systems to hold itself pretty much as it was since the beginning. Yes, minor adjustments were made over the years before you hit that “well actually”. It is clearly something a ton of people are apart of and more importantly… plenty of people that DONT want to do it just don’t do it.
3 Likes
Lol thts what normal mode is for.
in this case yes
Your the one sounding like an entitled little brat screaming “GIVE ME GIVE ME GIVE ME” Like a toddler then throwing a fit when you don’t get what you want. Asking for a shared lockout is called compromising. But if you dont want to compromise then its best left out of the game until MoP when it can serve more then one purpose.
Yeah just because it was added in cata doesnt mean that it will or should be added in cata. There where things that where added in cata but not added this time around Viod Storage, Cash Flow, Mass summon, Mass Res just to name a few things.
For me the overwhelming main purpose of playing a game is to have fun. Lfr serves that main purpose and since having fun is by far the purpose of playing games serving that one purpose is enough. There really doesn’t need to be any purpose or goal for playing a game than having fun. What do you think the purpose of playing a game is?
6 Likes
Except for people who don’t have several hours at a time to play.
How is it a bad thing? Does it hurt your loot? Does it stop your progression? Does it do anything at all in any way that forces you into an inconvenience?
I’d be open to a compromise if it made sense. NOTHING AT ALL is forcing you to do LFR. It literally is adding content that you can opt out of without any repercussions. It isn’t replacing normal and it isn’t replacing heroic. It isn’t lowering your loot drop rates. It isn’t stealing high end players.
Shared lockout would force people to decide: Do you want to get loot upgrades, or do you want to get transmogs - one or the other.
4 Likes
It’s bad because other people might have fun. It hurts my loot because it closes the item level gap between me and people who don’t breathe WoW. It stops my progression by fOrCiNg me to do LFR in pursuit of min-max because that’s my preferred play style and I am totally not a sweaty gatekeeping tryhard with no life and no impulse control. It forces me into an inconvenience by having to choose between playing with people who take the game less seriously and leaving loot on the table in the form of a separate and unused lockout.
4 Likes
You continue to be obtuse. People like you could benefit from it. That way you don’t have to pay over 400k for a carry and gear. 
8 Likes
From what I remember alliance just kicked very liberally
What are you talking about? It would be the same several hours if not more.
Actually yes. While I can’t speak for Cataclysm. I know for certain in future tier players who would never run LFR are made to do so to have more chances at Tier set bonuses and specific trinkets. It does inconvenience them.
You also can’t exactly say “Just don’t run it”, because they have to. That is their gameplay. That is what sweaties enjoy doing and LFR often causes them to have to put more time into it.
As I’ve already explained the top end is FORCED to do LFR if they want to do top end properly.
LFR sharing lockouts with the other difficulty tiers would be that compromise. It would be the thing that allows LFR to exist and not impact the top end.
The other compromise is for LFR not to be a difficulty tier and just a system that puts you into normal.
Not exactly. Blizzard already has the systems to in which to have a single item unlock multiple appearances.
However, that ultimately wouldn’t be a problem. If those items weren’t in the game because either LFR wasn’t added or LFR put you into normal. You wouldn’t need to decided where to get loot or transmog because you’d get both.
“But what about those other colors I want them!”
Well good thing there is also thing called the Black Market Auction House… that is what it exists for.
How disenguouus… that min-max is how those players have fun. Who are you to tell them not to have fun so you can have fun… when you would have fun regardless otherwise you wouldn’t be playing this game in the first place.
Honestly, it is a mentality like those people who loves to wipe raids and dispell world buffs…
Even the gatekeeping comment doesn’t make sense… because even if you do LFR you are still not doing heroics and later on mythic >.>
LFR is broken up into wings. Trying to get into an LFG normal when you aren’t a tank / healer is nearly impossible if you don’t already overgear it or aren’t a meta class. Forming a group yourself takes quite a long time as well.
So, because “sweaties” enjoy min maxing, adding content is bad? Worst case, it lets them min max faster / easier. Jeeze, I didn’t think about how adding LFR would give players something to do that they enjoy doing… you completely destroyed my entire argument there.
If they enjoy min maxing, and adding LFR gives them more enjoyable content, then what is the problem? If they don’t enjoy it, then they don’t have to do it. Again, it doesn’t remove anything from their teir of content.
No one is forcing them to do anything. Even if their guilds / playstyles require them to have the absolute best possible loot 100% of the time, as you said, that is what they enjoy doing.
Additionally, that extreme tier of players makes up what… 1-2% of the players at most? How much does the casual playerbase make up? I think it is pretty safe to assume MANY times more than the “sweaties”. Adding LFR benefits FAR more people than it “inconveniences”.
5 Likes
Adding something that negatively impact one group of players to benefit another group of players is a net zero. Especially when that other group of players are already doing something.
And if you wanted to argue in good faith… which you don’t… you would admit that they don’t enjoy it, but are forced to do it forced to do it for what they do enjoy to do.
You would also admit that it is a bad thing, but you won’t.
It isn’t enjoyable content for them stop trying to suggest that it is, and regardless of if they enjoy it or not. They have to do it or they don’t get to do what they enjoy doing. Because guess what if they don’t do it they will be replaced by someone who will. That is how that level of raiding works. If you are going to gimp your character on purpose because you don’t want to do something. You get replaced.
Stop trying to twist my words. They enjoy high end raiding. Not entry level hand hold raiding. There is a vast different between those two.
Stop pretending like any player that plays in a guild on that level has a choice. Yeah they can say “I’m not doing that”, they get replaced, they go to another guild, the same thing happens, then they don’t get to do it at all.
There isn’t a set of “like minded players” at that level that wouldn’t require it despite them all hating LFR.
Hell, your own argument went turned back on you makes more sense for your end.
The casual player base doesn’t raid… surprise even in retail. If you mean the casual part of the raiding community specifically… they are already raiding even without LFR… shocking I know right?!
Ultimately having a discussion with you doesn’t matter. Because you conveniently avoided any of the potential compromises I put forth to argue pro-LFR retorick because everyone that doesn’t 100% align with your mindset is wrong and are Pro-Mythic gatekeeping sweaties!
If all you card about was nice chunks of time being saved because you could queue up and do raids by wings! Then LFR throwing you into Normal instead of a lower difficulty would be a compromise that would give you exactly what you wanted. If they lower difficulty is what you cared about then LFR sharing a lockout with Normal and Heroic would do that. If the transmog is all you cared about then any combination of not having LFR, The normal item unlocking the appearance for what would have been the LFR, and/or the Black Market Auction House would solve that issue as well.
There is so many compromising that could be made to have both ends of the spectrum be happy and get what they want, but unless it is a total victory that hurts the other side you will say it is unacceptable. It is honestly ridiculous and sad.
This coming from someone who is pro-LFR… I raid far more than most… and LFR would help me raid more without spending two hours setting up my own groups, but I’m not just going to ignore the issues of LFR because of that. It is stupid and short-sighted.
If the number of sweaties vs casuals were equal, then yes… net zero. When the number of casuals (even if you only consider the number who would do LFR) is 10’s of times more than the number of players who are “forced” to do absolute min/maxing and hate it… that isn’t a net zero. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
So, giving faster progression to those guilds is a bad thing? Ok, I can see that I suppose from a purely game progression standpoint (we all know how much the community loves Blizz time/gatekeeping). If a guild demands that you do absolutely everything, and the players do not enjoy doing it, then… why are they in that guild? Isn’t playing a game supposed to be enjoyable?
Do those same guilds bench you the week Blizz nerfs your class out of being meta? Sounds… super “fun”.
In cata, no… because there isn’t LFR. In retail, many do. I’m a casual now and I raided LFR in retail ever since it came out.
Unfortunately, the typical LFR player isn’t going to be able to handle that difficulty when grouped up with a group of other similarly skilled players. Some may enjoy it, and some may even be able to carry, but I’d say a good chunk probably can’t. They need the difficulty to offset the lack of communication / lack of meta classes / etc. Personally, I wouldn’t mind the difficulty and enjoy leading LFR groups (I actually enjoyed leading LFR groups through N’Zoth).
I’m perfectly happy with compromises if they benefit the majority of the players. If they only benefit 1% while hurting 30%, then no… there is no reason to accept that kind of compromise.
Normal difficulty with wings: As stated above, a large chunk of LFR players can’t handle that difficulty.
Shared lockout: LFR has different gear with different appearances. Higher tier players would have to choose whether to progress gear wise or go for pretty pixels. Overall, this compromise is probably the easiest to swallow as the majority of casuals (and thus entire player base) won’t touch normal / heroic so it wouldn’t affect them at all.
Shared lockout with any difficulty loot granting all appearances: Cheapens the “transmog game”. Reduces optional early progression for “sweaties”. As much as I hate to list it, it reduces the carries.
BMAH for transmogs: Not everyone has that kind of gold.
Wait till MoP for LFR: Why? That’s just gatekeeping a majority of players from experiencing content.
4 Likes
Firelands normal is hard. That’s good. It keeps players on their toes.
But sometimes people want an easy drunk run for their alts.
Do what they did in retail.
Have normal, heroic and mythic.
Make normal easy for alts and casual players
Make Heroic about the same as Normal Firelands
Make Mythic the same as heroic Firelands.
They have LFR in retail. One of the biggest things is having a queueable raid that is broken up into smaller chunks - that way people aren’t excluded just because they picked a non-meta class / aren’t 100 ilvl higher than the gear that drops, and they don’t have to dedicate several straight hours to getting the raid done.
4 Likes
Gee, if only there was a tool and a raid difficulty designed specifically for casuals. And yes, even with the tool most people don’t raid. But guess what: more raid with it than without it.
But again, the only counter-argument seems to be, “I don’t like LFR, but I can’t resist using it. Therefore no one should have the option.”
It would be ridiculous for Blizzard to cater to the 1% of sweatlords like this. Those types of players will continue to play no matter what. The inclusion of LFR isn’t going to cause any of those players to quit. However, its absence is keeping casuals away.
5 Likes