I’ll try to make it clear, LFR only matters to me if it impacts me. You can have LFR or not that doesn’t matter to me. If people want to make a point that it should or not be a thing I don’t mind either stance as long as I’m not concerned by that choice. More objectively, I think there’s valid points on both sides (to want LFR or not) it only depends what is your vision of the game.
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LFR is not needed in Cata bring it back for MoP when it can be utilized for peopels alts to get caught on the legendary back. Other than that it serves no purpose in the very last phase of cata.
You didn’t make it any more clear, as you don’t say how it impacts you.
At least you’re not acting like that toxic gatekeeper who just doesn’t want ‘lesser players’ doing raids and getting epics.
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Your hypocrisy knows no boundaries does it? Ltdan? Moistkitty? gold buying GDKP’er? How the f do you get off talking about bad players getting carried? Don’t want more competitors?
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I agree 100% they should put a lockout on LFR so if you do LFR you cannot do Normal or Heroic like this yeah, it remove any reason for anybody who want to do normal/heroic to do LFR problem solve.
They could probably still queue for LFR and do it but it would give no loot or rewards all they would get is be allow to FLEX their might to the scrubs.
(And I would gladly take GIGA tanks or FAT DPS who cannot loot anything to carry the LFR group any time.)
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If the lockout is shared, LFR would be dead on arrival, even with only a loot lockout, noone is going to queue into it if there is no carrot on a stick in the form of transmogs.
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Doubt it, a lot of people do not do raid right now because there is no LFR and with LFR they would now queue for it.
For rewards without loots its the rewards of FLEXING their DPS meter and doing 40+% of the whole group DPS by themselves and carrying the whole raid, a lot of people queue for LFR only for this reason and do not care about anything else.
And nothing stop them from farming said transmog after they are done progression/gearing up in Normal/heroic.
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As someone who was there at the time when these were new, I think it’s worth reminding people of why these things happened in the first place. Because Catalcysm is the place where Blizzard killed Classic WoW. It is where the player numbers began to decline from their peak in WotLK. There are numerous ways in which they wrecked the game, but the biggest one by far was the changes they made to raid lockouts.
The end of WotLK was the absolute peak of the raiding scene in WoW, and the peak of player numbers. Why? Because there were 10 and 25 man, normal and Heroic versions, and 10 and 25 were on separate per-boss lockouts. What that meant in practice is that players from top guilds who were running either 25 or 10 man content in-guild, would PuG the other version during the week. People who were progression raiding 25 man Heroic in their guild would grab whoever they could find and do 10N for kicks. And somebody with a partial lockout could PuG to finish the run. I’m sure it still happens some, but that was the norm. Everybody at max level was doing it. It allowed un-guilded “casuals” who were good players with busy lives to raid without having to commit to a guild. And it improved the skill level of the player base as a whole, with players from those top guilds raiding with the next level down of good casuals, teaching them the fights, etc.
Apparently Blizzard and/or some raiding guilds thought that was a bad thing, so they killed it dead. With extreme prejudice. The changes to raids (and guilds) in Cata had the impact of forcing players to join a raiding guild if they wanted to raid. Specifically, putting 10 and 25 on the same lockout. It was clearly consciously intended to kill PuG raiding, and force people into guilds. Instead, the good casuals quit. In droves. It was a disaster for the game.
So Raid Finder was added to try to fix the problem they created, without fixing it. By creating a weak tier of raid, basically just a big dungeon. The problem is that doing the Raid Finder version meant you already saw everything, and got some weak loot, without doing the real raid. For casuals and guilds alike.
So things have never gone back to where they were in WotLK, the peak of the game’s popularity. I have to assume the idea was to ensure the elitism of raiding guilds, by killing off PuG raids and giving those not in a raiding guild lame table scraps. But adding Raid Finder ruined the attraction of raiding for everybody. It made the raids less of a big deal, and made them feel like less of an accomplishment. You didn’t have to do the real raid, on Normal difficulty, with voice chat, to see the end of the game. You just queue up like a 5-man Heroic dungeon, and that’s it. Maybe they decided it was better to lose a huge chunk of players and save server load.
So the real division between Classic Wow, pre-Activision WoW, and retail today is Cataclysm. Those are the two distinct eras of the game. And the above is the biggest reason why. They destroyed the raiding scene, lost a bunch of players, then added Raid Finder to try to stop the bleeding, but it was too late. Then they made a whole game ripping off Kung Fu Panda…safe to say Activision was in charge and the original game was gone.
EDIT: I just looked at my record from WotLK and I had to laugh at how much I played. I downed Lord Marrowgar, the first boss in ICC, 45x in Normal difficulty on this character alone. And this wasn’t the only character I raided with. That’s how you know you could do it twice a week. Plus ICC was “current content” for a year. I guess I should thank them for ending my addiction. 
Well, the reason I asked the question really comes down to your title “WoW Community Council” - and therefore I’d think under that title, you’d be representing the community and not worry about what impacts you personally but the community as a whole.
To be clear I really don’t care myself, but I’m also not a community council person. Perhaps I have the wrong idea of what that title means.
The community council are normal players with different opinions and diverse backgrounds. It doesn’t mean that I have to agree with everyone on the forums or share their opinions. I think some players also have/share the same interests that I do, it’s simply easier to explain one opinion coming from one perspective.
So your objection is that if LFR is in you’ll feel compelled to do it, and…that’s a bad thing?
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Don’t see anything wrong with my logic, you’re free to disagree.
I don’t think people should feel compelled to do LFR if they are raiding a higher level of difficulty, yes I think that’s bad design when LFR is not designed to give a proper challenge to those people or be fun for those people. I think that’s a good middle ground to LFR being added to the game, if it is added.
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Why can’t you just not use LFR?
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Why can’t they simply design the game so people that want to min/max can also have fun?
Is your goal only to want to entrap better players to run LFR so they have to carry other players? What happens after a couple weeks once those players are done anyway? If it’s not then what does it change to you if LFR would be on the same lockout?
You’re simply going in circle. Why am I the only one having to defend my opinion? Feel free to explain why you disagree.
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You didn’t answer the question. Why can’t you just not use LFR?
Your explanation is that you have to do every possible form of content, so you’d rather have content limited so you don’t feel compelled to do it? Is that right?
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I’ve answered the questions many times which at this point we’re simply wasting time. So good day.
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Wow, pretty sensitive. All I did was ask a question.
I don’t see an answer other than, “I don’t want to feel like I have to do it.” All I did was ask if that was correct.
I’ll use an example. Earlier you said this:
But you don’t say WHY. And that’s the important part.
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My answer hasn’t changed.
You can read my other posts in this topic.
And you still haven’t explained why you would be against what I am saying other than trying to mock/troll me.
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You’re just saying over and over you don’t want to have to do LFR. I ask why you can’t just not use LFR, and you just…won’t answer.
I’m not trying to mock anyone. I’m asking a question. You don’t want to run it for its loot. So…don’t?
Let’s put it like this. If it shares a lockout then you can’t do it. How is that different from you just…not using it?
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I don’t like that dailies are in the game because I feel obligated to do them, should just remove them from the game so no one can do them.
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