We begged for loot restrictions to be removed for 100% guild groups and even hide loot if necessary to make people feel comfortable so it could be completely voluntary, and people did nothing other than tell the organized group crowd “No, you’ll abuse it, you’ll give it to your e-woman” and a whole other slew of nonsense.
If this had happened years ago when people first began complaining about this, none of this would be happening currently lol
I always wondered if the iLvl restrictions on trading personal loot was part of a newer overall policy of discouraging boosts and carries, but under the new Group Loot system people can pass on upgrades and go back to funneling to the person who paid for a boost or carry.
Personal loot with eased or removed trading restrictions could have satisfied most players. What we will end up with in DF makes no sense, unless WoW devs are playing 5D chess and trying to earn the praise of organized raiders while simultaneously getting them to run raids for longer due to there being fewer upgrades overall.
Hello, I am for PERSONAL LOOT… I am not an idiot and know how for the majority of players in the game its going to be a nightmare all over again.
You understand that boost and carries are sold by overgeared people right ?
How would a restriction on trading higher ilvl loot matter in a carry/boost setting ? The players running it have higher ilvl than anything that drops already.
Actually made it so we could monetize it better : we sold funnel slots. You want a plate carry, that’s X Gold baseline. Then it’s Y Gold per Plate funnel you want. 4 funnels, (4 * y) + x gold.
^^^^ This ^^^^
Raiimir is dead on. Expect more people advertising carries now… Or at very least, making more gold at it… LOL
any1 can carry come DF , u dont need tons LW’s to carry a dh for example
u can now be any class.
Of course. But the good boost and carry groups carry enough weight to gear up their own members, and can bring along as much of a certain armor type as they can. Being able to trade without restriction means that you could funnel more gear to the person that is paying.
100% incorrect. Under Personal Loot, boost or carry groups could stack plate wearers in the raid and you would see multiple times as many plate drops.
Group or Master Loot isn’t going to give you more plate drops just because you are doing a plate carry. (It will just drop cloth, leather, mail, and plate in a predetermined proportion.)
If your boost/carry group is carrying their own members, get your money back.
You’re telling me I’m incorrect when I’ve literally sold Mythic raiding carries ?
Interesting.
Yes, and we sold you funnel slots. You pay 2 funnels, you get 2 plate partners assigned to trade you any of their own loot. Want more ? Pay more. From memory, a full EP clear with 4 funnels was 9 million.
Exactly, so funnel slot monetization is out. It can’t be sold anymore.
You would always have the choice not to join. Problem solved.
And PL gives loot that’s duplicates and that nobody else needs. All shards either way.
If they really were testing it, they would’ve made it an option to see if people will use it. Instead they will force you to use it and justify it’s existence one way or another.
It’s the same crap they’re pulling with classic too.
The good ones manage fine even if not every slot of every member is a higher iLvl than rewarded by the content they are doing.
If you sell carries, you should be advocating for a return to Personal Loot. Personal Loot is more likely to give you loot drops according to your team and the person(s) being carried.
This would only work under Personal Loot. Under Group/Master Loot, there would be no point in stacking armor types. You would just down the boss and hope something drops for the person(s) carried.
You are contradicting yourself. You just said that Group/Master Loot is better for boosting or carrying.
And then I would rather not raid at all than try to get into a group again.
The problem remains that raiding is dying and WoW devs would rather see further sub losses than accommodate non-raiders.
But PL takes your actual team composition into account, so you are more likely to see gear that someone needs over time.
GL/ML results in more completely useless items like bows or shields, and generates armor types in a set proportion rather than the proportion of your actual team. For example, even if your 10-man team has 5 clothies, half of the armor drops are not going to be cloth.
I guess that’s your choice, but it seems pretty absurd to think that with allllll the people who hate ML/GL, none of them would start groups and use PL if it was an option.
Over time as people get more gear, PL increasingly gives useless drops. Heck, there were tons of complaints about PL giving drops in legendary slots that nobody ever needed.
That’s fine. There’s no guarantee half the drops would be useful in PL too. Especially if you’re in a casual premade raider and also do m+, or LFR + open world player, which is going to cover the bulk of players.
But why? Is there some kind of myth going around that PL is more likely to generate useless loot? Your chance of getting useless loot increases the more often the same team runs the same raid, regardless of loot system.
The superiority of GL/ML is purely emotional. It feels worse to have a useless item go right in your bags than it does to have it pop up in GL for everyone to roll on. If that item is truly a downgrade or sidegrade in terms of iLvl, the PL system allows you to trade it.
But once you see things objectively, there is no refuting the mathematical reality that PL is going to give more people more upgrades over time because it takes your team composition into account.
Yes, legendary items should have counted for iLvl for trading restriction purposes. (But if you can’t trade the loot you got, maybe you should keep it in case you need to recraft your leggo on a different slot and need a new non-leggo.)
Exactly so outside of the first couple weeks GL giving loot nobody can use isn’t any more of a problem than PL giving loot nobody needs.
I guess that might be an issue for some folks, but definitely not a universal one.
Ilevel isn’t always the best determinant of upgrade. We should always be free to trade a drop if we want to.
PL could give me the same shield every week as the only shield user in the raid and if I have a better one. Literally no different than it dropping bows without hunters in the raid. There’s probably an edge to PL very early in the season but the overall may very well not be many more upgrades in the long term, and we’ll never have the data to know for sure.
Great if people want to do that, but they should have always had the option to trade anything. I think I have 7 toons with leggos and none have ever needed to change slots, so that’s just all wasted gear.
You don’t need the data if you understand the laws of probability. Having loot drop in proportion to your group’s actual loot spec composition is always going to be superior to loot dropping in any other proportion.
People that defend GL/ML either don’t understand it, or are willing to accept less loot for everyone over time, in exchange for having more control in the short term.
There’s a reason top guilds don’t want PL. Even with the lost gear in GL it’s more efficient. Who cares about the long term if they’re done with their goals early?
Better upgrades in the right places is going to lead to more loot overall than incremental upgrades distributed poorly.
People that defend PL are always focused on themselves over achieving a team goal.
It’d be great to have both options, but I think people are going to find there’s really not much difference at the end of the day.
Yes, I agree with that. Hardcore raiders in organized groups want as much power as soon as possible, and they prioritize fast progress on certain goals, rather than trying to provide deterministic power progress more evenly to all members.
By the time I get around to doing LFR (for quests), I usually outgear it and am more than happy to give away loot to toons that could use the upgrade.
Especially in 9.2, I could earn the LFR set appearances from catalyzing sandworn relic gear, and didn’t even need to keep gear for the appearances.
I defend PL not because I want the gear for myself, but because it is more fair, and it is more upgrades for more people over time.
Raiding participation rates are clearly in trouble, and I think that raiding needs to be made into a stable source of progression for more types of players rather than a competitive, elitist sport with all the politics that entails.
Time and place. When you’re charging someone near gold cap for a run, you don’t stuff the raid with carries of your own.
I’ve stopped. But Ultimately, group loot is superior, now people can just charge full price.
Yes which is why I said this was what we did to monetize personal loot. Adaptability is a quality.
It is, you can just charge full price right out of the gate, promising all the drops. Plus you don’t actually have to have janky things like fitting in a few Mythic ready alts as funnels when your main roster is lacking some (I had to tank on my Monk in EP to fit in as a leather funnel sometimes).
Thing is, you’re not going to get less loot. You’re going to get the same number of items (maybe more in LFR, just to get them to calm down over made up drama)
RWF and HOF are the only competitive things in raiding, and most players are never going to be in the running for either. This anti e-sports paranoid has to stop. There’s no pressure on regular guilds and LFR raiders outside of what they put on themselves.
If people spent more time actually trying to get the team to succeed and less time worrying about
getting their individual one DPS increase, they might actually make progress, get more loot overall, and have fun.