They want that raid logger life. 3-6 hours a week.
So the content for them is content they they have professed to not like? This is the kind of thinking and posting that lands people with the labels YOU are complaining agisnt.
Ok, bit extreme, why donât we split the difference and make it 8 hours a day running Torghast or visions, or farming elite world mobs? Things that are not snooze fest easy but not the hardest content for the majority of players.
Sadly, this can come down to the groups they wind up in, a bad group can turn them off from it even more, a good one can help them learn to enjoy it. Truthfully, it would not surprise me if a lot that âhateâ group content just got into a few too many bad groups (and for some that could be just one) so their perception is skewed due to that.
You assume good faith on their part.
I do not.
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Fair enough, but;
You seem to assume good faith on the part of raiders/key runners
I do not, because far too many of the ones that post make out arguments that have not even been mentioned till they mention them.
Sadly, this can come down to the groups they wind up in, a bad group can turn them off from it even more, a good one can help them learn to enjoy it. Truthfully, it would not surprise me if a lot that âhateâ group content just got into a few too many bad groups (and for some that could be just one) so their perception is skewed due to that.
Groups arenât sacred, neither are guilds. Find ones that work for you rather than just staying out of apathy or something.
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I do not assume, I have experienced, and thus I know.
Just remember the old saying, once burned twice shy. I think people should always be open to giving things multiple chances but it gets harder and harder to do so the more negative experiences one has.
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And if you never play wow, youâll never experience any negativity. Just donât even start 
The game only sucks if I donât like the current environment and force myself to remain within it.
Most problems can be solved by spending time in the WOW recruitment discord.
The game is what you make of it, generally, enough time investment saves time later on rather than dealing with random people.
Haha, too true, but I think for most of the solo players, they only have negativity when they have tried group content, so they think in their mind to avoid negativity, they need to avoid group content.
some people online also canât interact with others because everything must go their way.
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some guilds are friendly
all fine and dandy until some OP item drops and whole guild drama burst into flames, because im top dps , because i have more attendance , because i help the guild more, because i have been an officer for 1858 years and so on.
or some1 needs when they arent supposed to do because they looted already 3 items
friendly guilds can become a nightmare in the span of 5 min
with PL nothing of that happens. If u are lucky ppl are happy/jelous for u but thats it.
is like lottery tickets with PL , ppl can be jelous but cant be mad that u won , they dont feel that u stole their win
I am going to be honest here, please donât fall out of your chair.
Most guilds will not have a problem with Group Loot. I know in the guild I am in I will not. Group Loot can work to our benefit. Like others have pointed out, if you have a problem with loot due to the new system as your guild isnt letting you get items. Hands down FIND A NEW GUILD. It can be frustrating as there are a lot of bad guilds out there, its took me a while, but finally found one not full of jerks.
That said, PUGs should be Personal Loot. If a raid has enough non-guild players in it (put in some arbitrary percentage), then it should be Personal Loot to prevent drama. If they are having to pug one or two more DPS, shouldnt be an issue with GL. But more then that on say 15 playes, yea I think it should be defaulted back to personal loot. LFR for #$#$ sure should be PERSONAL LOOT⌠M+ when using Group Finder should be Personal Loot. M+ as a whole guild run should be Group Loot.
Now as I have mentioned before I have raid lead raids countless times at this point using Group Loot and Master Loot. I prefer Group Loot, but ML prevented Ninja Looting.
What I would like to see in Group Loot since it looks like we are stuck with it regardless is the ability to APPROVE the final loot distribution. Here is whyâŚ
When using Group Loot, our general raid looting rules is Main Spec over Off Spec (blizz did fix this), so Need for MS, Greed for OSâŚ
Everyone gets 1 (ONE) Need roll per raid lockout. Once everyone has rolled need (obviously on items they can use), then players are allowed to roll Need again on new items. Or if no one else wants an item that drops, then with permission of the raid lead a player can roll Need again on an item.
This was done to ensure gear was evenly spread out and no one gets lucky and hordes all the loot. The problem we only ever ran into with this was when we had to pug someone to ensure we had 25 players to actually raid. This will not be as bad of an issue in retail since Flex Raid is amazing, but still may have to pug a healer/tank if no one can swap to those roles.
So would just like the option to make sure Bill isnt rolling Need back to back as like I mentioned, the best part of Personal Loot was virtually zero admin. But with Group Loot the raid leads will have to make sure Bill isnt being greedy. Which can take time and make the raids longer. Now I am willing to make that trade if Blizz just cuts half or more of the trash out of the raid so we dont have to spend so much time clearing trash get to the boss.
Youâre competing with someone else in PL too. People still inspect others to see if they need what PL gave them, and still get into conflict over it. Thereâs no difference.
You were ok with PL rolling need for Bill every boss, but you wonât let him do the same with GL? Sounds like one of those toxic controlling guilds everyone is complaining about.
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PL is a not a good system. The game rolled for you to determine who got loot , then it rolled for you on teh loot table to see what loot you got . with PL you could :
on some bosses your group could get Zero loot ( people in your raid were loot locked but teh game selected them as teh ones who were to get loot --game doesnt reroll to someone elseâno one gets loot ) . This happens FAR more often than you think especially in lfr ( people only need last boss of wing because they have already done teh first few but left a group before final boss ) and also in normal/heroic ( pug group falls apart after say three bosses , person joins another pug group that is starting fresh )
things like rings , cloaks , necks you were rolling against everyone in teh raid , whether it was an upgrade for them or not , and because the most popular attitude was " its my loot " they would not trade it .
seriously people just dont understand how PL worked . All the rolling that comes with group loot was done by teh game with PL, you were still rolling for the item . Now with rules on group loot all of what I said above will not happen .
Group loot rules 1) you can only roll need if you can actually use teh piece ( so no warriors rolling on cloth for example ) 2) you can only roll need if its an upgrade from what you currently have . 3) things like shields if nobody who can use the shield as their current loot spec rolls need then teh greed roll WILL prioritise a Ret palidin over a Hunter because they can use it for one of thier offs specs for example.
So say in lfr for example instead of actually competing with all other 24 members of teh raid for that cloak , you are only competing with those who it is an upgrade for .
Far far better system . After all the time PL has been in I am totally surprised by how how many people actually dont know how it worked
Group loot rolls for you too. In the way the rng happens when the boss drops loot.
It doesnât generate a winner randomly. It just generates loot randomly. Then based on your comp each person has different odds on getting an item based on comp.
In a 25 man say of leather everyone has a chance of winning something they can use.
In grouploot. Its like only however many times a leather piece drops and or trinkets/rings/necklaces/weapons etc.
Group loot the item is chose for you. And then you have to fight over it based on your comp. Which can be manipulated to funnel rewards to like the only cloth wearer if the raid leader makes the group that way. Or the rogue not inviting any other rogue. Or the demon hunter avoiding inviting any other demonhunter to get dibs on a warglaives item.
Personal loot always generates a piece you can use for the raid.
Group loot decides for you what piece drops. Personal loot always dropped a piece of gear you can always use for your comp though.
Also in lfr you have the option to not loot the corpse. So people donât see what you got. And bother you for the loot. That is what you may be experiencing. I do not like explaining to people I am in lfr for transmog. So I donât loot to avoid being asked for loot.
If I am doing lfr I likely wonât need gear upgrades. You would be rolling for people like me that want the transmog.
I have much incentive to get gear and farm transmog for current raids. You will see just as much people rolling for stuff that you woudnât expect. Because we all do the content for different reasons. Some people may want gold to cover repair bills for example.
proceeds to tell everyone that it works for him and we should all shut up and suck it up.
How about NO?
GL is going to be completely horrible. And I donât buy their ⌠we are just testing it for the first season line either. You paid devs to code the old system out, and the new system in. Time and time again, you love to tell us ⌠well sorry, itâs too late to make changes post release. This will be no different. They will give us the ⌠well ⌠we only change major game systems at expansion release.
Ok. So see you next expansion?
They have 100% committed to this. They just donât want an all out riot so they can rake in the release sales.
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Itâs not going to be any worse than PL with the updates to the system.
On paper perhaps. Are you forgetting that this community loves to call people trash and abuse them at every opportunity? Did you suddenly forget how horrible ML was? This version of GL is just ML with an extra step, and it will be abused exactly the same way ML was in the past.
Well thatâll happen regardless of loot system.
Never had a problem with it myself.
No itâs not. If anyone has a issue with how their guild manages loot, they should find a guild that aligns with their needs, just like from day 1.
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In my old guild, we never had a problem with ML, and in most of the guilds we ran with had no problems with it either. We also allotted DKP to pugs and non-guildys from other guilds that sometimes ran with us, which the GL and officers kept track of, and pretty damn well too. That being said, I was sort of glad to go to personal loot, but disappointed that the option for ML was not left in for guilds. Options are always good, and ActiBlizz still has trouble with this simple concept.
The OPTION to CHOOSE ML or PL should be in game, and should have been since they implemented PL. If Iâm in a guild run, I would choose ML, I would never join a pug that used ML however.
Semper Fi! 
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