I was speaking in generality because of that. You think that group loot was fair for everyone? It wasn’t. IIRC (its been like 6 years) you rolled for loot and could then trade it. (Edit : or be told to pass on said gear) Which runs the risk of wasting your lockout if the lead wants you to fork over your stuff.
Pugging into a filler slot to a ‘guild run’ would run the risk of getting nothing but the ‘experience’ for your troubles as well. Any system that allows loot coercion is a bad system because of that.
But I’m starting to wonder why they keep forcing these changes instead of providing options. There’s clearly benefits to both systems for different demographics of players.
Sounds like a missed opportunity for some well needed brownie points.
So the same people who swear that any system but pl is evil still wouldn’t get together and run a PL pug if it was an option? Guess they don’t have any real issues with GL then.
Everyone should just go in knowing to hit need if they don’t want to pass. It’s basically just PL at that point.
The point was that giving your fellow player that you are not actually close with power over your ability to obtain gear is bad. this N/G system is literally doing that and that is just one reason as to why it’s bad. Not to mention that ‘dead’ items for the group are now back in the distribution pool.
The PL system definitely has flaws (like the ring/neck tradidng problem with secondary stats) but I don’t see this ‘new’ system as an actual solution to them. This implementation reads off more as a backslide towards ML and enabling the player base to abuse one another over digital shinies… Giving faceless people control over your own loot isn’t a really good idea. Now if this were to only be implemented in Mythic raids then I really wouldn’t care nearly as much because then it not only wouldn’t effect me but it also would be targeted towards the players who actually want that
It’s pointless to drop rings for a raid that has already disenchanted 10 of them. Yet my guild was almost always getting at least one of those every kill of the nine before we saw the weapon of the tank trinket.
I don’t think you actually know how PL generates items under the hood.
The drop rate of items that can only be used by some classes/specs are dependent on how many players in the raid are eligible to loot it. Since rings, cloaks, and necks can be looted by everyone in the raid, one of the terms goes to 1.
How? I thought the issue was items that drop for everyone like rings, necklaces and cloaks. Shouldn’t they show up regardless of the group comp since everyone gets them as drops?
Exactly, this isn’t master loot where raid leaders can actually ‘reserve’ loot for themselves or certain guild members. It’s group loot, which means if you want something, you can roll on it and if you win it you are under no obligation to give it to anyone else.
They do. And that’s why their drop rate is over represented.
Current PL rolls for 5 players in a 25 player group to get items, then generates the item that each of those 5 get. If a boss drops 4 items for each loot table, and the raid has 10 casters, then the caster trinket has 40% of the rings drop rate, because it’s usable by 40% of the raid instead of 100%.
I would contemplate quitting over this. Personal loot is what makes M+ so much fun. I can gear up by myself, for myself, without having to rely on other people, or be manipulated by other people.
With Group Loot you “reserve” items by making sure you are the only person in the raid that uses that item type.
For example if I wanted to make sure I got the chest piece I wanted if it drops all I would have to do is make sure I am the only mail user in the raid (sorry hunters and evokers you’re not welcome here).
But that could literally happen with personal loot as well, but in reverse. You could ‘stack’ the raid with with as many mail wearers as you could for example, so that even if you don’t get the item, the chance that someone else in the raid would is greatly increased and then because you organized the raid under that pretence, they just trade it to you.
Either way someone missed out on a slot because of what armor they wear.
So how does tuning the drop rate of rings/necks/cloaks so they show up less screw over some group comps when every group comp gets them at the same rate?