And I’m saying that without vastly changing/overhauling either MM or BM, it’s not possible to actually achieve the RSV playstyle. Also, neither of MM/BM would actually work mechanically with RSV abilities and effects added.
Anything close to a working concept for the above you suggest, would require more work and time than a 4th spec option actually would.
Fair enough, but then you’re not actually understanding what players are asking for when wanting for RSV to come back.
Ofc you could add in Explosive Shot(Pre-legion version) + Black Arrow(Pre-legion version) and Serpent Sting into MM, as an example.
But that would not achieve the playstyle of RSV.
And, no matter at what level, it would require us to pick a very specific set of talent options in order to have said playstyle. Which in itself, is a horrible suggestion for a playstyle-design.
-Talent options to further rely on the use of pets. Of which, MM has none. But RSV always did in the past. How many? Am a bit flexible on that part.
-Passive effects which further improves your Serpent Sting and Black arrow abilities, beyond the default versions. Like the old RSV did.
-A Thrill of the Hunt-type of talent. (Not the current BM version)
-Resourcefulness(old talent).
Think I’ve forgotten something but…yeah, can’t think of it so…the above will have to be it for now.
I should also mention that for the above to work, quite a few things from the current MM needs to be entirely optional/replaced by the above.
Or it would essentially just be MM but with some of these things tacked on.
Not to mention that the very basic design model of MM itself has to be adjusted for the above additions to work smoothly/feel fluid and not make it feel broken.
That could be implemented as talents to the current mm spec.
To be honnest with You, the 4th spec proposal is not justified and the chances that Blizzard ever listen to you are almost Zero.
I would recommend to type another proposal as a new post including the ideas of what @joylux said.
Ideas like adding more flavour to the current mm spec by giving to the players more options:
You want to be a turret? Choose talents related to aimed shot.
You want to be mobile and spread dots and traps? Choose serpent stink, dark arrow, cobra shot
The current talents can be baseline so current rotation should not be impacted. Besides mm needs an small overhaul to be honest. Most of the talents are useless.
The chances to overhaul are bigger than making a 4th spec
So basically, you’re saying that MM should be overhauled because you don’t like it’s current design?
They aren’t. They said @BlizzCon that there would be no major overhauls to specific specializations. Can they change their minds before Shadowlands goes live? Sure.
As I said rotation wise should feel the same You are just providing more options to the player.
Blizzard historically has changed his mind and the chances are bigger than making a 4th spec still.
Do You know how many Qq from other classes blizzard would receive ? Players would claim “I want My 4th spec too for my warrior” imagine the dh community which always has qqed for a third spec. It would be a dissaster.
There are alot of options available just think about more ideas and write another article with those ideas. I am sure the chances are bigger.
It could be for current surv Hunter too. Like for example: a black arrow talent which reemplaces raptor strike or for example for mm: black arrow which reemplaces aimed shot.
A lot combinations are possible without affecting gameplay.
You need to think by yourself more creative ideas about ir not me. I am happy with melee surv hunter.
Side bar, this is the kind of attitude that has had the worst impact on the game as a whole.
The “go, go, go” mentality is a cancer.
Anyway, on topic. Imma have to say no to reverting to ranged. But I support the 4th spec idea. In fact, all classes should get a forth spec (except druids who already have one, and I guess DH’s would just go to 3).
I’m not going to provide feedback for something which I cannot stand behind.
You seem to think that the above could be added to MM without vastly changing it somehow. Think that all you want but it simply wouldn’t work.
And I’m not going to advocate for another spec to be overhauled/vastly altered just to incorporate another playstyle into it. Especially when those two playstyles wouldn’t work well together, based on the modern design of specializations today.
You’re not the one that needs to be convinced. The devs are.
To be fair, survival did have melee abiltiies back in the day. You would’ve known that since you claim to have played since wrath, which was when hunters still had the “no ranged attacks if enemy is within 8 yards of you”.
They tried to cram RSV into MM in Legion, and they failed miserably. That’s because they failed to take into account the two entirely different playstyles between RSV and MM.
RSV – as it was in WoD and prior – was a very fast playstyle, and depended quite a bit on procs (RNG). Lock ‘n’ Load, anybody? RSV also was dependent on large fights for spreading DoTs (Serpent Spread).
MM, on the other hand, excelled at single-target fights, and MM had very, very few procs over its existence from Vanilla to WoD; the only proc that ever really mattered for MM was the Instant Aimed Shot procs, and that didn’t really exist until WotLK (and then it came-and-went from WotLK to WoD).
MM was all about predictability, RSV wasn’t. MM was a very high-burst spec, RSV was a DoT-focused spec. MM could one-shot a regular, over-world mob. RSV could take down eight regular over-world mobs in a single fight without breaking a sweat by using CC (RSV had enchanted CC compared to MM and BM), and by spreading DoTs through the rest.
Two very different specs. Very, very different.
And Blizzard completely failed to understand that, so they turned Legion MM into some mangled mess consisting of a few MM abilities and few RSV abilities and a few abilities that attempted to bridge the two.
Legion MM was entirely dependent on RNG to do damage. Vulnerability was inspired as an attempt to “meld” together MM’s old “Expose Weakness/Critical Bleeds” passive procs from WotLK/Cata and RSV’s old “Lock ‘n’ Load” active proc from WotLK through WoD.
As a longtime MM player (since Vanilla), I detested Legion MM so much that I came very, very close to actually quitting WoW. But I was determined to come out even more stubborn than Blizzard, and my (perhaps poor-advised) stubbornness paid off when Blizzard revamped MM in BFA; BFA’s MM is a little lacking in the number of things to do, but it’s so much closer in spirit to how MM originally was, prior to Legion.
So I’m enjoying MM once again.
If you try to shoe-horn RSV talents and spells into MM again, that’ll mean I’ll lose my spec AGAIN. I’ll lose MY playstyle once again just in order to give the old RSV players something they lost.
Look, the matter of fact is: Blizzard deleted a spec.
The spec they deleted CANNOT be “resurrected” through another spec (much less one that’s the polar opposite – honestly, RSV had a lot more similarities to BM than it ever did with MM).
The only solution for returning a playstyle that they deleted is to return it via one of the three means: by deleting MSV (which only moves the goalposts), by returning RSV via a fourth spec (of which there is precedent. Look at the druids), or by creating a new class that is melee-focused, Ranger-inspired and move MSV to that class.
PS: This wasn’t aimed at you, Ghorak. I’m just using your words as a place to start my post on.
