Don’t be a sore loser.
I don’t care who you are, that was comedy gold!
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You mean, my distaste for people who make things up and claim I said them? For either psychopaths or liars? Yup. But, after you get some good treatment, maybe some mental health medicine, you might even be okay.
Where? Oh, yeah, I keep forgetting your disconnect from reality. It’s compulsive, isn’t it? Notice how you can’t actually quote anything I say, but you “quote” your own made up lines?
I do. You can too. Just go seek help. You desperately need it.
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In the melee description it says uses traps.
Does only one spec have access to a trap?
You’re making a rather larger presumption there. I’ve played a hunter off and on for years. Some of my fondest memories of vanilla are from hunter vs hunter pvp. Getting rage tells from people because my hunter alt in blues melee’d their full epic hunter to death lol.
When they changed survival to melee I was disappointed and highly skeptical. But then I actually played the game and had a blast. I know lots of people who say they love to play survival (when you play a hunter for 15 years you make lots of hunter friends along the way) but feel they are stuck playing BM right now due to tuning. Such is WoW life.
All 3 have the same 2 traps. Tar and Frost
Boom case proven.
We had snake trap, which was garbage. Fire and explosive. Also garbage, but good for getting procs for Explosive shot and frost trap which was replaced ultimately by tar. (I should have said Ice trap above)
All they were usually good for was some CC or flag protecting in BG’s
Given the current state of MM I feel like actually putting the old RSV playstyle into it would make it a better spec overall, having ammo/arrow typing matter and adding some mobility to the spec with dots.
Also make dire beasts baseline for BM thanks <3
My only qualm with Survival really is that there isn’t a good AoE way to resolve latent poison stacks and keeping up serpent sting at times falls off the priority which can feel bad.
What would you have said if I’d said this before Leg?
I mean, you literally took something away from me so you could have it, then when I suggest the same, you’re like, that’s toxic bro. Don’t play like that. Let me have what I love and have fun with.
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You can come up with any fringe niche idea and find at least someone who will like it. You could turn Enhancement Shaman into a tank tomorrow and have a dedicated following that swears by the spec. Sure, it would utterly screw the many, many more players who play it for a melee DPS, but at least some people will have their dreams come true. That doesn’t make it a good decision and it doesn’t warrant the new tank spec being set in stone for eternity.
Yes, talking about who a spec should belong to is a tough conversation to have and 4th specs are exceedingly unlikely. But the fact is this conversation wasn’t had at all before Legion’s announcement. I simply cannot agree with the logic of “Whoops, guess we screwed all the ranged Survival players and made it a melee spec! Now it must be protected forever because changing it back would be just as bad!”. It was a bad idea executed badly and it continues to hurt the class and its community to this day. I don’t think the handful of people who like the spec justify any of that. I do think there are compromises for melee players, however it seems to me that most of the ideas about compromise lean in the “melee players take all” direction.
Personally, I think the best choice is to axe the current Survival, create a new ranged Survival based on the WoD version plus some additional mechanics to make it truly distinct, and incorporate melee Hunter into Beast Mastery via an optional talent that swaps out your ranged weapon abilities for melee ones (e.g. Cobra Shot => Raptor Strike, Barbed Shot => Lacerate) in exchange for a damage and health boost. When I look at the array of problems facing Hunters today and the possible solution to the melee Survival matter this is the most practical and fair approach. It solves many issues along the way such as the fact that any melee Hunter will have to be pet-based and therefore infringing of BM’s identity.
Yes, I agree. There are only 2 ranged weapon specs in the game while there are 13 melee weapon specs. We need to give this game more variety. One more ranged weapon spec, please.
Who knows what you’re getting at in this rambling response.
Yes, you invented history to try to justify a misinformed take on the class. That’s not a false accusation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HG09CrieDs8
Preach’s contemporary view of WoD Survival. Sounds like he and all the people in the comments liked it a lot. This is probably why it was the most popular spec in the game in the first tier of WoD.
Sigh, I miss those times. The last time Survival was any good. Who would have thought Blackhand in February 2015 would end up being the last time the spec was ever brought to a world 1st kill. If only the current version was worth a damn.
Um, what does this refer to? Lock and Load? You are aware that RSV had that for 4 expansions, right?
“I’m uninformed of Hunters so I’m going to assume everyone else is”
Actually, the ranged version was vastly more popular than the current version. The current version gets a lot of defenders but not a lot of play. Also, sadly, the change made many people reroll or quit.
This has always been and will always be a dreadful idea that must be avoided at all costs.
Actually, Survival’s damage is pretty strong. It’s fallen behind BM but it’s pretty in-line with Marksmanship. Plus, you’d think Survival’s representation would go up in more casual content where these damage differences are less important yet it’s not. It’s still just as unpopular in Heroic and it’s a mostly rare sight in random battlegrounds (admittedly anecdotal). The only place where it shines is PvP at the high ratings, and of course that’s ironically due to competitive advantage.
What about those of us who played it for years and years before it was taken away? I didn’t see any sympathy from you guys back then.
“Live and let live” has been dead and buried from the moment they decided to replace one spec with another intended for a different group of people. Sucks, but that’s how it is. We are now in an era of the game where this remove-and-replace approach to class design is on the table all thanks to melee Survival.
You want to lecture me on weak arguments while posting anecdotal rubbish like this? I see a lot of hunters on Retail preferring that design. So what?
It talks first and foremost about how Hunters are unique because they are ranged, then dedicates a whole section to talking about the Hunter’s ranged capability and specifically distinguishes it from Rogues and Warriors by saying Hunters rely on ranged instead of melee. This is on top of the class icon being a bow, all our gear primarily buffing our ranged power, most of the class’s toolkit being based on the ranged weapon, and all Hunter development from Vanilla all the way to Legion being centred on the ranged weapon.
It is complete and utter lunacy to pretend that the ranged weapon wasn’t the most important part of the class. You know better than this as a Classic purist.
I did say earlier that rewriting the Hunter definition after-the-fact doesn’t automatically justify it. Nevertheless, as someone else mentions, this is a weak argument because you’re fixating on the fact that in a list of notable features of the class (i.e. not even the first thing on the page) it happens to put melee as the first item.
I wasn’t basing my argument solely on the first statement of the original manual talking about the Hunter’s ranged capability, although that was an important part of it. The most important part is what is said on the page: “The Hunter is a unique class in World of Warcraft because it is primarily a ranged attacker”. They wrote down a brief introduction on the class and the first thing they came up with and put down on the page is a statement that the thing that makes the class unique (i.e. defines the class) is its use of a ranged weapon. This is not the same thing as a high-level list of features included somewhere on the current Hunter class page having melee as the first option of the list. Right before that on the page there is literally artwork of a Night Elf Hunter using a bow.
Despite all this you apparently thought it was some “gotcha” moment worth derailing the thread yet again with childish nonsense.
It’s not about being biased (well, it’s partly about that); it’s about being informed. One of the most frequent arguments against ranged Survival was that it was “MM-lite”, yet that argument most frequently comes from people who proudly brag that they had little to no investment in the class before Legion and primarily play melee. How can arguments like that possibly hold any water when they don’t understand the historic Hunter class identity?
Hopefully you can at least partly understand why I don’t put much stock in the opinion of someone who self-admittedly hasn’t played a Hunter before this expansion and floats around between the specs.
Melee does not add flexibility. There are few to no situations where you’re a ranged class and think “man, it would be handy to be stuck in melee right now”. Don’t get me wrong; current Survival has advantages, particularly in PvP, but they aren’t because of the melee part of the spec but rather in spite of it.
So you want to play a Hunter, a class defined by its ranged weapon and pet, and want to have the option to play without both the ranged weapon and the pet. What does Hunter even mean to you?
MM can have a petless option because it has a lot of focus on the ranged weapon. You can’t have a Hunter spec that doesn’t have either of those things. It would not be a Hunter at that point.
I liked Survival as it was as did many others, that didn’t stop Blizzard from axing it. If you didn’t like Survival before Legion, why should our spec have been taken away and replaced with something else just for people like you?
Yeah imagine how sad you would be if you played the spec for 8 years and it was taken away.
Oh yay, another thing Survival can steal from BM because it can’t come up with its own appealing features any more.
Late MoP to current: https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/pve-stats/classes/hunter/survival
All of MoP + Cata: https://cynwise.wordpress.com/2014/01/14/class-distribution-data-for-patch-5-4-2/
Can’t find any before that, but it was also a frequent appearance in boss kill videos during progression for T11 in Cataclysm and T8 in WotLK. At that point you have most of the tiers in the 3.0-6.2 period covered, and that’s the ranged Survival most people knew and loved. It was pretty niche before 3.0 (when Explosive Shot was added) because all Hunter specs were pretty samey back then and there wasn’t much to get excited about in the Survival tree.
Probably because it’s meant to be a Hunter spec and not a Warrior trying to be a Hunter.
There are way, way more melee weapon choices than ranged weapon choices in this game already. Zero excuse for taking away one of the only ranged weapon specs.
“Melee Survival sucks. Raptor Strike and Kill Command over and over” - just as strong an argument as your ignorant statement, and I can also add the fact that ranged SV was provably vastly more popular.
Yeah…no. This never happened.
Cool story. I know a lot of people who rerolled or even quit because of the change, even after they “actually played the game” and tried out melee Survival.
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Oh but it did. Nothing funnier than someone crying to another hunter about the deadzone. lol Guess you weren’t much of a pvp hunter in vanilla, but it was good times I assure you.
It is a cool story, why else would I tell it? It was a direct response to someone saying that I never cared about the removal of ranged survival. Your response is… I guess bitter catharsis? rofl.
Just because it was designed a ranged class. It doesn’t mean that it couldn’t become a melee. Not sure you know the definition of a hunter. Having a melee spec does bring the class in general up to date. It also makes it unique, before it was very generic aka (huntard).
Bringing up a caster class is not a very good comparison. Each class as a set of specs to choose from, if you no longer like/love the changes, that’s what they are for.
I end up making a survival hunter in legion. It did bring up a whole new way to play the hunter class. Made it a lot more interesting when face with other hunters in different specs.
You expect me to believe that a player of the same class with significantly better gear than you lost to you in a fight with literally the same abilities? What happened, did he not press Raptor Strike hard enough?
Unless he disconnected might fight or was at 1 FPS the whole time or something, this did not happen.
Playing in melee as a Hunter in Vanilla PvP was a good way to get roasted by any remotely skilled player. Stop inventing history.
Let’s put it this way: was there any situation in Vanilla where sticking to melee would make it easier to win the fight than using your ranged capabilities?
You would think that if a class were explicitly defined and designed around a ranged weapon that would preclude a spec that could only melee, actually.
How does having a melee spec bring the class “up to date”? I know this might come as a shock to melee fanatics like you (generic “huntard”? really?), but some people really do like ranged specs instead. Having ranged weapons is, in fact, more unique than melee for the simple fact that there are only 2 ranged weapon specs while there are 13 specs that use a melee weapon. In fact melee is the one that is generic at this point.
It’s interesting being the one spec in the only class in the game that uses ranged weapons that isn’t able to use one, is it now?
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I love the current melee survival spec. It’s so fun and feels unique.
I wouldn’t give it up for the world.
There has been precedent for a melee hunter spec since vanilla, i feel like in 7.0-onward it was finally realized, and well. I love it, and it feels 100% quintessential hunter to me as a night elf archer or a dwarf rifleman.
Don’t take away my melee survival!
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Making assumptions I see, To go in more detail, survival was and still is a favorite alt of mine. I thoroughly enjoy every spec in that class from wrath to now. I’ve played it before it became a melee spec. Also play non melee class as well 
. I was just putting light on other players such as myself, that actually like the new changes. I couldn’t see it reverted back to what it was and getting all bent over the word (huntard). I guess not everyone as a sense of humor.
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rofl just because you didnt know how to play nobody did…
Ranged and melee auto attacks were separate abilities back then, and the game did not auto swap between them for you. This allowed for dead zoning the other hunter and only being in range when your abilities were off CD by out dancing them because if you timed things correctly they couldn’t hit you back. Because most hunters were melee averse they were always trying to get back to bow range and you could manipulate them pretty easily. Even when they decided to melee you back they likely wouldn’t toggle the correct AA back on and lose the trade.
Like I said, it was fun times. I get the feeling you wouldve been one of the dudes who made an alt to rage spam me if you had been there. rofl. edit: not because youre bad, I dont know you. Just because you seem like the angry type. <3
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I played all specs of hunter starting in 2004. I just like melee survival more.
Edit to add: It’s not that I don’t sympathize. I do. There’s a lot of specs I loved over the years that Blizz has destroyed. I’m just saying, personally, I like the current version more.
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Yeah, I concur with this. I only even posted in this thread to show that there are people who do like it the new way.
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Don’t communicate with him. If you keep talking about the spec that perform well in different variations and ramble on. You’ll be falsely accused of harassment. Bepples and his buddies did that to me because I disagreed with his opinion that he likes to call players derogatory names just to prove a point that is countered. Not worth the effort.
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RSV fanatic text walls are not my cup of tea, thanks, back to the scrapyard for you.