I like melee surv tbh i think its a neat spec dont get why people hate it so much
Wrong. We had no specs back then. None at all.
Awesome you like it.
For some, it might be the spec sure. But for many, it’s more the fact that they deleted a very fun and engaging specialization/playstyle just “to make room for it”.
5 Likes
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here to try to help you figure out arguments to help convince the devs that MM hunters should get more instant cast abilities; with the way things are now I don’t expect the devs to agree. I’d rather see classes reverted to their MoP versions personally. A lot of this is theoretical. I don’t know MM hunters very well (my hunter is survival), so I’m giving you some things to think about instead of offering specifics.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the devs saw all ranged specs as part of the same group for balance purposes. That’s why I’m mentioning caster abilities as examples below.
If you want more instant casts, it’d probably be more likely that they would be dots (e.g, shadow word:pain) or abilities that can’t be spammed (fire blast with a recharge reduced by haste - my mage is showing an 8.5 sec cd).
Maybe something like scorch is an option? There’s a cast time on it, but it’s castable while moving.
The devs will likely want some kind of trade off for increased mobility. I’ve seen several times where they’ve talked about each spec having strengths and weaknesses. If mobility becomes a strength of MM hunters, what would you be willing to sacrifice to have increased mobility? DPS? Defense? Utility? Maybe something else?
1 Like
Bring back MoP Survival as a 4th spec, otherwise I’m not interested.
2 Likes
I wouldn’t. Some were fine. Others were trash.
Which is exactly what Black Arrow was.
Which they did when they completely changed Arcane Shot.
Point is, a mix of dots and casts would be more interesting. Right now, I have one dot and the rest of the time I’m a turret. Hunters are boring to me now. They have been for several expansions. I used to love my hunter. Now I rarely play her. I also despise the pet changes. But that’s an entirely different topic.
The thing about the old RSV was that the strengths and weaknesses which you’re referring to, were already there.
It did have the strength of increased(full mobility). The tradeoff? It was designed around DoTs, it required management and reliance on procs to be strong. And, it lacked the very key thing which was the signature of MM, which was those strong instant damage hits. Of which, MM was even able to fire while moving, at times(not always though).
The above of what I wrote, is the exact thing in combination with this, which makes RSV(as a potential new spec addition) unique, and compelling, when compared to the current MM.
The upside would also be that it wouldn’t automatically “outshine” MM, it would just allow for us to choose between 2 defined playstyles
Were there actually that many players who played survival when it was ranged? Always seemed like it was either BM or MM until Legion.
There were yes.
It was at times the most popular hunter spec of all. Even more popular than all other dps specs in the game(a few times).
Parts of MoP, is one example. An expansion where MM wasn’t particularly sought after, for multiple reasons ofc.
Early Cata was another.
The only time when that spec was actually barely being represented/played at all, was during late WoD. Simply because of the big nerfs to i, during BRF and going into HFC. Along with the announcements of them turning it into a melee spec. That’s when most players abandoned it, as they could no longer see a future for it.
In fact, up until the above nerfs/announcements occurred, it was generally the most represented hunter spec of all. (Not counting Vanilla/BC, for several reasons, one being that the RSV we’re talking about, did not actually exist at the time)
6 Likes
Hahaha BM hunter takes more to play…hahaha BM hunter takes more…hahahaha
Warriors posting in Hunter threads.
“I don’t understand why people don’t like melee Survival”
Name a more iconic duo.
4 Likes
This is going to be a long one because there are so many melee fanatics in this thread to reply to. If I quoted you here, find my response to you, accept that you are wrong and move on.
This game already had a wealth of melee specs and just 3 specs that used a ranged weapon. It made 0 sense to take away a ranged weapon user to add yet another melee weapon user. If you love melee weapons so much go play one of the 12 other specs that uses one.
You can’t cry “live and let live” when a ranged spec was removed for this melee spec to exist. When we played ranged Survival we were not going around demanding melee specs be made into ranged ones, so why was it fine for you guys to do that to us?
Same goes for you. There were already plenty of melee specs in this game and melee players got yet another one in the very same expansion they made SV melee. Enough with the infatuation with melee.
Lol!? Ranged SV had the same pet situation MM did. Ranged SV was unique due to its focus on augmented projectiles, which translated into the gameplay difference of sustained damage and multidotting over MM’s hardcasted burst.
And may I reming you that ranged SV was vastly more popular than melee SV is now, so clearly for most Hunters the ranged version was more interesting.
Every post you make in this thread makes it painfully obvious you are minimally informed about Hunters.
They clearly are not. One of the specs is explicitly designed for people who don’t play the class. Yes, Blizzard actually said that. Because we are down 1 ranged spec, ranged weapons are now critically under-represented in WoW while we just get more and more melee specs.
For the overwhelming majority of Hunters who prefer ranged… including yourself… the class is much, much worse off now that we are down 1 ranged option.
And yet vastly more people played and enjoyed ranged Survival.
Like I said in the other thread, I am not sure why you think this helps your argument. One of the most frequent points I make against melee SV is that it explicitly eschews the bedrock playerbase that engaged in the class from the beginning in favour of melee colonists from other classes. People call me unreasonable when I say that, so it helps to have people like you come along who proudly brag about their total lack of investment in the class and contempt for the ranged specs.
Same goes for you. Your type of player is exactly the problem here: people who don’t care for Hunters at all but are getting an entire Hunter spec catered just for them.
People did it to ranged Survival and it actually got removed. There were even more high-rated arena players back then playing ranged Survival than there are playing melee Survival right now. Why should melee Survival be afforded a level of respect that was not offered to ranged Survival?
If we wanted to play melee we would have played a melee spec.
None of us former Survival mains were interested in the spec becoming melee. It was one of the most fun specs in the game. If melee players were unwilling to give ranged Survival a chance they should have gone and played a different spec instead of pushing for ranged SV to be removed.
If they are going to do a talent-swapping approach it should exist within BM and not SV, since any melee Hunter is necessarily tied to a pet. Look how much the current SV is infringing on BM’s identity as it is.
Also, it should be ranged by default with a talent that lets you switch to melee if you want in exchange for a damage boost, since there is simply not enough melee audience within the class to justify an entire 1/3 of the class being melee.
People who actively pushed for other people’s spec to be removed (there were hardly any pushing for melee Hunter, by the way) shouldn’t come crying when people do the same thing to them.
And no, there are not many people who are happy with melee Survival. It’s consistently one of the least popular specs in the game.
Great idea. No, really. They should do it.
You are right in the first part; as someone who evidently has no clue about Hunters you have no voice here and you should have kept out of it.
Like, really? Ranged SV had no pet focus, BM’s very definition is the pet focus. There’s your difference. Common sense.
The current version of Survival is the one that is stealing all of BM’s mechanics. Bringing back ranged Survival would actually make it more different to BM.
So much better almost no one plays it and it routinely gets ostracised from end-game PvE content. Amazing.
Yes, they took one of the only ranged weapon specs in the game and turned it into the 13th melee spec. Such uniqueness, wow.
Lol @ your attempt to drum up sympathy for your preference for Survival. Some of us played Survival when it was ranged, for a time longer than MSV has even existed. You didn’t give a rat’s behind when they removed our spec. Why should I care at all about yours?
Can we delete Arms Warrior then because we can just take some watered-down versions of its mechanics, put them in Fury, and call it a day?
We want ranged SV back because it’s important to explore a variety of playstyles. Ranged SV was one of the only specs in the game that focused on ranged weapons. Melee was already done to death. That’s the most basic reason why we should get ranged SV back, but there are many others.
I was a Survival main when it was ranged. People like you didn’t give a damn when they axed our spec. Why should I give a damn about yours?
MM also had melee abilities. All the specs did.
They also all had a ranged weapon and focused on that mode of gameplay.
Having forced melee within 8 yards in the past is not an argument for having a Hunter spec without a ranged weapon at all today.
Take it from a Hunter who’s far better than you:
Hunters are still desired for raiding and M+. Survival is the least-desirable spec specifically because it is melee.
“Having just 1 spec in the game that focuses on ranged weapons is enough but for melee weapons we will need 13 specs”
- You right now
Yeah it would really suck if they removed someone’s spec from the game, who would ever be in favour of such a thing…
Vanilla version had a ranged weapon along with iconic ranged abilities like Arcane Shot, Multi-Shot, and Serpent Sting, the current one does not.
That simple fact defeats any revisionist argument about SV “going back to its roots”. The Legion iteration was the most alien to the original out of any Survival iteration, followed by the BFA iteration.
You have been informed of this countless times in the past 4 years yet you still choose to be intentionally ignorant of this in all SV threads you post in.
If you want to play melee go play one of the 12 other melee specs in this game including every single spec they have added after the game’s launch and the one you’re posting from right now.
It can be amazing and have incredible depth as ranged, too. Those aren’t things that depend on being melee. After all, clearly the ranged version was more “amazing” to people since far more people played that version. You say right here in this post that most of the abilities are ranged.
Survival was intended to use a ranged weapon in all iterations before Legion. Even the very early version that had a lot of melee-enhancing talents. It had those because you got stuck in melee range a lot in PVP where you couldn’t use a ranged weapon. That is not the same as a spec that does not have a ranged weapon and is intended to stick to melee as much as possible.
It is absolutely ludicrous to pretend two specs is enough for ranged weapon fantasies, especially when one of them hardly focuses on a ranged weapon. Meanwhile there are thirteen different varieties of “swing a stick” in this game. You have to be so far up melee’s behind to think it was fair to remove one of the only ranged weapon choices in this game for yet another melee one.
Buffing projectiles with explosives and arrows is a common trope in fantasy and multidotting is a fun playstyle that works well with this. Neither of these things exist in the Hunter class, but instead we get this convoluted mix of Arms Warrior and BM Hunter that hardly anyone wants to play.
5 Likes
Ah yes, nice ad hominem you did there. Dismiss everything they said because “they be fanatics”.
But only the survival tree had talents that boosted those melee abilities.
3 Likes
Actually, I explained why and how they were wrong in each part. Just because I also called them “melee fanatics” doesn’t mean I didn’t provide an argument.
Survival was the PvP tree and you were expected to be caught in the minimum range a lot when in PvP. You were still intended to stay at ranged whenever possible and the spec still had a ranged weapon and used it thoroughly.
Plus, it was less than halfway through Vanilla when the spec had a ranged CC as its final talent. That version of the spec also boosted your Agility, which was also the stat on all the Hunter gear, and it gave you 2 ranged attack power and 1 melee attack power than each point. The ranged intent of the class couldn’t be more clear if they literally stated in the first sentence of Hunter’s description in the game manual that the Hunter was unique because it’s a ranged attacker (https://i.imgur.com/kBVr5Uc.png)
It’s completely absurd to pretend that a Hunter lacking a ranged weapon is anything representative of older iterations of the Hunter class.
P.S. Hurry up and finish writing your reply, Mandriani, so I can explain why that will be wrong too.
6 Likes
I am not going to answer you with details because it’s a waste of time but you are wrong and please Return to earth “fanatic”
Where did you get that source from my fan boy? And don’t Say it comes from
Wargraphs because that data is not precise.
If You want argument lots of bullshi$t based on wargraphs then here is my poll
h ttp://www.strawpoll.me/16988754/r
Who is the third most fun spec? Surv hunter
1 Like
I don’t care for hunters because I don’t use your preferred specializations, and instead use survival? Don’t you have two specializations catering to your preference?
It still boggles my mind that the ONLY ranged physical damage class in the game had a spec taken away to make it Melee when there was already…25 specs in the game that were melee?
Just makes no sense. Doesn’t affect me since i don’t play Survival melee other then i am now limited to 2 specs for all of my hunter toons.
5 Likes
I’d be very interested in a trap-based spec that was DoT oriented and used a melee/ranged hybrid style of gameplay with a dead zone to encourage the switch. Throw in camouflage and bam, perfecto.
Survival as it is… I feel like it aspires to be more, but falls flat. I mean come on, who throws bombs point blank? And aspect of the eagle to perform ranged attacks? Severe lack of imagination.
Powerful argument.
So let’s recap:
- Random survey with 400 replies asking which specs are fun: accurate and precise data about who is playing Survival
- Automated collection and parsing of all Hunters in mythic to determine how much participation you get from each spec: not precise
Do people from Ragnaros usually argue on the forums as badly as they play in PuGs in game?
If you like surveys so much, go look at the surveys on reddit that people post before Legion and BFA which actually ask the relevant question: what spec do you intend on playing next expansion. Hint: Survival is typically last place or close to it.
You are posting from a Warrior and talking about how your only experience with Hunters is melee Survival, so yes I will say that you don’t care for Hunters in general. The only Hunter spec you have played is the one Blizzard has explicitly said is not aimed at catering to the Hunter playerbase.
Yeah, as a long term Hunter, I have two specializations aimed for people like me. One would think that a class’s design should be aimed at the class’s own playerbase and that bringing one spec’s development to a screeching halt in order to cater to people who might reroll from Warriors, Rogues, Death Knights or whatever is a bad idea.
There are 13 melee specs in this game, but yes you are right; it’s absurd how some people think that we needed more of those and less ranged weapon users. It’s proud and blatant melee favouritism.
7 Likes
Usually people who tend to use toxic words while trying to prove a point always tends to be the foolish one in the end. The fact you want to ignore survival talents goes to show you how well educated you are on logical stuff. Stay toxic my friend. You’ll never escape that tunnel.
2 Likes
-
They took away the spec I enjoyed please change it back
-
Also please take away the spec others enjoy
Is how I read this
4 Likes