Please reconsider your stance on retail/classic reward linking

[Fatfat-sargeras]

Mat, your original reply of:

It absolutely would have a negative impact. I would have to wonder if each new recruit was actually interested in classic, or if they were going to bail the second they got what they wanted.

is the first argument I’ve seen that makes sense beyond “it’s just not for you”, so thanks for contributing. As a GM on retail, this resonates with me for sure. I would argue that: you can never truly know what someone’s intention for playing/contributing to a guild environment is, and this is an age-old issue with group-requirement content that’s existed before WoW, and persists to this day in retail, even with the switch to personal loot. If it were a situation where someone would hop on, get what they wanted, and then inconvenience 20+ other people by then moving on, I’d agree it would be an extremely negative situation/addition.

However, you’re talking about someone joining your guild as a recruit, making it through the recruitment process, performing well enough to help you accomplish your guild’s goals, kill whatever it is that has what reward they want (on their bnet account), and receive that reward. I think it’s unfair to say they haven’t earned it then, and I’m making these statements under the same assumption/pretext that you have: that it would be done deceptively and not intentionally stated that they are “only interested” in getting rewards for this reason. That’s like stating raiders should only receive loot if they promise to stay with your guild for the rest of the expansion, which I unfortunately know to well is impossible to expect or hope for. You’re also forgetting that there could be entire guilds of people who play Classic for this reason (i.e. a retail guild that rolls characters together on Classic to raid old content for the experience and to get the rewards on their bnet accounts). How amazing would it be for a guild that’s raided together since vanilla to get another shot, together, at rewards they missed out on their first time around?

Addressing your other points in your two replies after your direct reply to me:

The question of whether there should be rewards or not is a moot point. The rewards are already in Classic. The discussion is about whether those rewards should be available on your bnet account / retail or solely the Classic character. If blizzard wanted you to ONLY get rewarded from the gameplay loop exclusively, there would not be mounts or the like in Classic.

In regards to the financial incentive for Blizzard: They only “already have the dollar” of the people who are happily playing retail with no intentions of unsubbing. Since there is no way to know the numbers concretely, this is again speculation, but I think as I mentioned earlier, I believe [adding accessibility of rewards on retail] is more likely to add to the value of a “retail player’s” subscription than it is to prevent a subscription or lessen the value of a subscription for someone who is solely or more interested in classic.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

Mat, your original reply of:

It absolutely would have a negative impact. I would have to wonder if each new recruit was actually interested in classic, or if they were going to bail the second they got what they wanted.

is the first argument I’ve seen that makes sense beyond “it’s just not for you”, so thanks for contributing. As a GM on retail, this resonates with me for sure. I would argue that: you can never truly know what someone’s intention for playing/contributing to a guild environment is, and this is an age-old issue with group-requirement content that’s existed before WoW, and persists to this day in retail, even with the switch to personal loot. If it were a situation where someone would hop on, get what they wanted, and then inconvenience 20+ other people by then moving on, I’d agree it would be an extremely negative situation/addition.

However, you’re talking about someone joining your guild as a recruit, making it through the recruitment process, performing well enough to help you accomplish your guild’s goals, kill whatever it is that has what reward they want (on their bnet account), and receive that reward. I think it’s unfair to say they haven’t earned it then, and I’m making these statements under the same assumption/pretext that you have: that it would be done deceptively and not intentionally stated that they are “only interested” in getting rewards for this reason. That’s like stating raiders should only receive loot if they promise to stay with your guild for the rest of the expansion, which I unfortunately know to well is impossible to expect or hope for. You’re also forgetting that there could be entire guilds of people who play Classic for this reason (i.e. a retail guild that rolls characters together on Classic to raid old content for the experience and to get the rewards on their bnet accounts). How amazing would it be for a guild that’s raided together since vanilla to get another shot, together, at rewards they missed out on their first time around?

Addressing your other points in your two replies after your direct reply to me:

The question of whether there should be rewards or not is a moot point. The rewards are already in Classic. The discussion is about whether those rewards should be available on your bnet account / retail or solely the Classic character. If blizzard wanted you to ONLY get rewarded from the gameplay loop exclusively, there would not be mounts or the like in Classic.

In regards to the financial incentive for Blizzard: They only “already have the dollar” of the people who are happily playing retail with no intentions of unsubbing. Since there is no way to know the numbers concretely, this is again speculation, but I think as I mentioned earlier, I believe [adding accessibility of rewards on retail] is more likely to add to the value of a “retail player’s” subscription than it is to prevent a subscription or lessen the value of a subscription for someone who is solely or more interested in classic.

the point goes beyond though me having worry about them.
lets take for example -
my guild finally Kills KT. Main Tank gets his new tanking sword.

and then is gone forever.
now my guild has to replace a completely knowledgeable, fully geared tank, with someone who is neither. for what? so retailers can have incentive to play a game they clearly don’t want to play otherwise? no thanks.

In regards to the financial incentive for Blizzard: They only “already have the dollar” of the people who are happily playing retail with no intentions of unsubbing. Since there is no way to know the numbers concretely, this is again speculation, but I think as I mentioned earlier, I believe [adding accessibility of rewards on retail] is more likely to add to the value of a “retail player’s” subscription than it is to prevent a subscription or lessen the value of a subscription for someone who is solely or more interested in classic.

at the same time though, you would be removing incentive for those who want classic to actually sub themselves.
think about it - you have a bunch of people whose only interest in classic is rewards for retail. who have a completely different mind set about the game, and probably don’t care for a lot of the way classic is designed. and you’re supposed to play a game with these people? no thanks. back to private servers they go.

your idea sounds great from a retailer players perspective, but it would absolutely be OFF-PUTTING from a classic players perspective.

[Gratefultime-hyjal]

Mata, you’re a boss, I want you on my team. Join my guild when classic launches.

[Mddsteve-crushridge (Mddsteve)]

Ohhhh I don’t knowwww…maybe continuation of my dollars? It’s the only true voice any of us have with Blizzard.

The amount of people in this thread commanding and demanding what everyone’s reason for playing Classic to be is pretty laughable. Belittling and bullying anyone who opposes your viewpoint by twisting all their arguments to ‘git gud scrub’, and ‘quit crying’, and ‘stop being so entitled’ is some petty school yard garbage. A Blizzard CM gave you the response you wanted to hear, and you’re riding him hard, otherwise you’d be roasting him. Now you’re saying ‘he spoke, his word is law’ like that’s supposed to mean anything given the extensive history Blizzard has with changing their minds due to popular demand.

I’m not even in favor of linking items from Classic to retail, but you people need to seriously learn how to approach a situation objectively and brainstorm how both sides can be appeased because both have valid concerns, arguments, and desires. You don’t get to tell anyone whether their desires are valid.

[Elynos-sargeras (Elynos)]

Proof? Show me a lvl 50 warlock beating a lvl 60 warlock in raid gear

[Sabetha-turalyon (Sabetha)]

your idea sounds great from a retailer players perspective, but it would absolutely be OFF-PUTTING from a classic players perspective.

To be honest I don’t even know why retailers would like this idea. Putting in months of time in a game they might not even want to play just for a transmog or a mount?

That sounds like a system very few will be happy with. The modern players who just want their cosmetics will resent having to play Classic for it, and the Classic players will both resent having them there and be worried about losing raid members the moment they get the items they’re after.

If Blizzard wants to add those items again, they should find a way to do so in BfA. You’d still have the prestige worry, but at least then you’d earn BfA rewards by playing BfA and not Classic.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

Ohhhh I don’t knowwww…maybe continuation of my dollars? It’s the only true voice any of us have with Blizzard.

The amount of people in this thread commanding and demanding what everyone’s reason for playing Classic to be is pretty laughable. Belittling and bullying anyone who opposes your viewpoint by twisting all their arguments to ‘git gud scrub’, and ‘quit crying’, and ‘stop being so entitled’ is some petty school yard garbage. A Blizzard CM gave you the response you wanted to hear, and you’re riding him hard, otherwise you’d be roasting him. Now you’re saying ‘he spoke, his word is law’ like that’s supposed to mean anything given the extensive history Blizzard has with changing their minds due to popular demand.

I’m not even in favor of linking items from Classic to retail, but you people need to seriously learn how to approach a situation objectively and brainstorm how both sides can be appeased because both have valid concerns, arguments, and desires. You don’t get to tell anyone whether their desires are valid.

Really - because we’ve already told people how to get what they want - to ask blizzard to make those rewards obtainable in retail.
furthermore classic already appeases both sides - classic fans get what they want. retailers get what they want - a game without changes to try to draw in classic fans.

[Tagatojin-wyrmrest-accord]

“I’m not even in favor of linking items from Classic to retail, but you people need to seriously learn how to approach a situation objectively and brainstorm how both sides can be appeased because both have valid concerns, arguments, and desires. You don’t get to tell anyone whether their desires are valid.”

This project isn’t about appeasing “both sides”. This project is about bringing back CLASSIC WoW as it was, not tainted with QoL features that are present in the modern game.

You want QoL? Play BFA, you want a damn good game? Play Classic.

[Gratefultime-hyjal]

Except in all their panels the Dev’s and support team have said that it will not happen. These people Begging, crying, insulting, insuniating the only reason to even play classic for them is the rewards they would have on live…

People stating things that very clearly are not true in the slightest and using it as justification to pussy out.

Elynos ---- he said COMMONLY IN EARLY WOW.

int he first couple of months before MC comes out and other stuff its going to be a common occurrence.

[Mddsteve-crushridge (Mddsteve)]

They said the same thing for over a decade about Classic realms, yet here we are.

[Tagatojin-wyrmrest-accord]

Good job twisting something to fit your narrative. It has nothing to do with what people are asking for.

[Weili-wyrmrest-accord (Weili)]

I’m not even in favor of linking items from Classic to retail, but you people need to seriously learn how to approach a situation objectively and brainstorm how both sides can be appeased because both have valid concerns, arguments, and desires. You don’t get to tell anyone whether their desires are valid.

It’s not valid to desire it on the Classic server, where neither Blizzard nor its intended audience wants rewards linking.
I thought you’d decided to redirect the discussion to trying to get Blizzard to put some of the removed armor sets and weapons back into the modern game?
That’s a more constructive approach, IMO, instead of continuing to come here and get upset with the tone some of us take with the people who won’t take “no” for an answer.

[Mddsteve-crushridge (Mddsteve)]

You are correct, this project is about Classic. However the Classic project has brought to light a very hot debate, with a lot of division. The issue is definitely linked to Classic, and will be brought up continually as people play Classic and discover forgotten mogs they wouldn’t mind having in retail.

[Gratefultime-hyjal]

They wanted the story to advance. Right now it will definitely be profitable to bring back classic AS CLASSIC WAS. Thats the whole point, is to try and draw those players who LOVED vanilla BACK to wow. To link it to retail SUBSCRIPTION ONLY to encourage them to check out the new content as well.

Its not that “oh, classic is a side thing to retail” its “classic is a part of the experience. You are subbing for WARCRAFT. here is the untained experience, from 2006 and here is the current platform. Good luck and happy hunting!”

[Tagatojin-wyrmrest-accord]

And you aren’t understanding that with a linked game it will negatively effect Classic as a whole.

“Sorry guys, gonna need on this epic because I don’t have the mog on retail lol!”

“Gonna ninja this for my tmog on retail guys sorry!”

That can stay far, far away from Classic. If you want old items to return why don’t you go complain on the BFA General forums. Not here, where a mod has specifically said it WILL NOT HAPPEN. Even at Blizzcon, they announced that it will not happen. No amount of scapegoating will resolve that.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

And you aren’t understanding that with a linked game it will negatively effect Classic as a whole.

“Sorry guys, gonna need on this epic because I don’t have the mog on retail lol!”

“Gonna ninja this for my tmog on retail guys sorry!”

That can stay far, far away from Classic. If you want old items to return why don’t you go complain on the BFA General forums. Not here, where a mod has specifically said it WILL NOT HAPPEN. Even at Blizzcon, they announced that it will not happen. No amount of scapegoating will resolve that.

and that would be the best approach. ask for those items to be made available again. most of them already are, in one way or another.

[Mddsteve-crushridge (Mddsteve)]

Part of what I’m trying to get across is that those who want Classic items need to see why it won’t work to earn them in Classic. It wouldn’t bother me any because I was already there in Vanilla and I’m not really interested in a 100% museum recreation, but I can see how those who have wanted Vanilla for years would feel that way.

On the flip side, those who want Classic to remain segregated need to show some class. Desiring Classic items in retail is not grounds for bullying and insulting someone, and if anything you should identify with their desires. Come up with constructive ways to implement Classic items in retail without compromising Classic. If you help them, it’ll help you. They’ll stop begging Blizzard to implement an item crossover and you get to keep your Classic game segregated.

[Gratefultime-hyjal]

It’s not valid to desire it on the Classic server, where neither Blizzard nor its intended audience wants rewards linking.
I thought you’d decided to redirect the discussion to trying to get Blizzard to put some of the removed armor sets and weapons back into the modern game?
That’s a more constructive approach, IMO, instead of continuing to come here and get upset with the tone some of us take with the people who won’t take “no” for an answer.

This though. People have been told very firmly NO. This isnt happening. By Ys. By the Devs at the reveal who stated NO they will NOT be doing it. AND MULTIPLE TIMES ON THE Q AND A PANEL. Shot down. Every time. and every time since.

This original was “can we get out collectors editions pets too?” which was a “hmm, interesting to bring it up. We havent talked about it. Please dont hold your breath though.” and evolved into everybody and their mother trying to force pandora’s box open to try and get what they want in retail out of classic.

And its getting very… frustrating. That people keep fighting so hard for changing the original game we know and love so much and THEN. AND THEN. putting in an aspect of it that will force you to lose, and re-gear players CONSTANTLY. only to have those new players leave too when they get what they want.

and then conflicting raid times. People joining classic guild for achievements and Xmogs that prioritize their BFA raid to the 40man you’re progressing in and lose a day of raiding because two of your healers didnt log in…

While starting my guild I am very firmly planting my raiding days on so called “off” days but if people keep no-showing in favor of BFA I’ll kick their happy self straight to the curb and replace them for people who want to actually play classic.

[Matcauthon-steamwheedle-cartel (Matcauthon)]

Part of what I’m trying to get across is that those who want Classic items need to see why it won’t work to earn them in Classic. It wouldn’t bother me any because I was already there in Vanilla and I’m not really interested in a 100% museum recreation, but I can see how those who have wanted Vanilla for years would feel that way.

On the flip side, those who want Classic to remain segregated need to show some class. Desiring Classic items in retail is not grounds for bullying and insulting someone, and if anything you should identify with their desires. Come up with constructive ways to implement Classic items in retail without compromising Classic. If you help them, it’ll help you. They’ll stop begging Blizzard to implement an item crossover and you get to keep your Classic game segregated.

and that was easily answered in the first two posts.

1. it would encourage bad behavior.
2. classic’s purpose is to be a game itself, not a side game for retailers to earn rewards in downtime.
3. people getting their mogs and leaving.

[Galdor-maelstrom (Galdor)]

You are correct, this project is about Classic. However the Classic project has brought to light a very hot debate, with a lot of division. The issue is definitely linked to Classic, and will be brought up continually as people play Classic and discover forgotten mogs they wouldn’t mind having in retail.

I don’t think it’s a very hot topic at all. I’ve only seen a few people talking about it on this forum and this forum is already an extremely tiny portion of the playerbase.

There are thousands and thousands of items in Modern WoW, I think the number of people that think it’s a big deal that they can’t get some low-res Vanilla WoW mogs is very small.