Why don’t you help those players not be intelligent or better yet, go find a group that plays better?
So whats your plan after nerfing Sunwell? people will be done with isle daily and since the raid is so easy now whats the point of farming heroic for the new isle badge gear since we can’t get good BT gear drop to compensate for our lack of skill and awareness?
Also it won’t get bad, people are gearing up their char for Wotlk. they won’t quit trust the system
You run it for gear like every other raid in the history of the game. It’s a dopamine hit everytime you get loot.
People don’t raid for the challenge. The raid for the loot.
Respectfully, that’s Retail mentality. give me my gear as fast as possible and please make sure i don’t have to actually execute mechanics or i will come on forums and scream that its too hard.
Give me loot pinata is what you are asking for. I’m sorry but it shouldn’t be the case .
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retail mythic raiding is more complicated and difficult than remotely anything TBC has to offer.
I always find it amusing when people try to say people have a “Retail mentality” when it comes to raiding, because generally speaking the raids there are more difficult.
All the “Race to the finish” guilds have a “Retail” mentality of finishing the raid to, get it done and secure the gear as fast as possible.
Some people have more time to waste on TBCC than others, some people clearly care more than others.
But it’s already been said by blizzard that nerfs are coming. The pre-nerfed version won’t last forever. 
My guilds going through sunwell, I wouldn’t call it a pleasant experience, just like I didn’t call pre-nerf T5 a pleasant experience.
Some people enjoy over tuned nonsense. The same mentality exists in Retail with the Mythic+ grinders whom want to push dungeons way past the normal difficulty. Guess people grinding the pre-nerf raid stuff have a retail mentality too. 
Personally, I just don’t find this fun, if it was a single player experience where only my personal screw ups lead to me dying, AKA: Something Darksouls style, then sure. I can understand the personal achievement at the end of a grueling difficulty journey.
I simply do not get the same feedback or experience doing it in a Multiplayer setting, and look forward to the raid being toned down to where it’s a more enjoyable experience overall.
i found this confusing at first too. I associated Retail with Casual. I don’t know much about Retail or anything after 3 months into TBC for that matter. But the more I learned about Retail and the current player base I realized, that what the current player base wants a game they can “beat” without a lot of effort. You can’t “beat” Retail with such little time.
That being said, the majority of Retail is casual friendly. You can’t just “beat” it being a casual. You can with Classic - thus it’s appeal. When things get hard, just look what happens. People fold like lawn chairs.
This isnt true. This hasnt been true for a long time. There’s a reason why mythic in retail is as hard as it is and its not for loot. I raid because i want to have something to sink my teeth into. Doesnt have to be unbelievably difficult, but I do want a challenge. If im bored to tears like with BT and Hyjal then that’s really not good. Sunwell despite only killing 2 bosses this week has been really fun. Its not an impossibly hard challenge because there’s simple mechanics to deal with.
False, in every way. If the game is easy, its not worth playing, do something more entertaining.
Just killed m’uru and KJ last night and lol… yeah no chance casuals kill them.
M’uru is actually kind of easy… but our warlocks are insane so it was fine.
KJ, yeah no chance. Takes so much coordination. In and out constant movement. Dragons breaths. Tons of DPS checks.
Classic players definitely dont raid for the challenge… That’s why classic is popular. The best and worst people all have the same loot. The guy who parses 100 has the same stuff as dumbo over there without a monitor. Everyone clears content (outside of prog) weekly and everyone gets kitted.
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We got Brut down last night on a 6:30 kill. The screaming on disc, "it’s enraged, kill it! 5%, pally bubble!! kite kite go go go!!! Brut goes down Yàaaaaaaaa was probably the most epic thing I’ve ever witnessed. Don’t nerf these bosses until late, give us a chance to challenge ourselves.
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I mean, you know this isnt why we wanted classic right?
It 100% is. Because you can be the best player in the world or an absolute trainwreck and at the end of the day you both kill the end boss and both get the sick best loot.
Thats the assumption that the loot is the pull. It isnt.
We wanted the class builds, the raid builds, the lack of retail systems.
I think they will nerf it in 3 weeks or so. Its hard but not impossible, yet we can all remember vashj and kt being guild killers prenerf. While I agree that vashj was really stupid, especially in the low 10% where most wipes happened. KT was however a joke even prenerf.
Sunwell is just alot of KT’s and not on the rng difficulty vashj brought.
There’s no need to nerf it early when everyone knows people who would quit because its harder than they like, will resub for wrath.
Why nerf it? Is progression so scary you can’t handle not being able to walk in and get loot for minimal effort?
If you want it nerfed you can come back and raid it at 80.
I dont disagree, but the cries will start pretty loudly in like a week or two when dad guilds still cant touch brutallus
Dont nerf sunwell.
So nice to have content that people cant sleep walk through.
I don’t mind one bit, if the content stays this way. I enjoy progression, raiding, getting gear, and spending time with the people whom I raid with. I also enjoy “learning” mechanics, you know… wiping until you stop messing up, collectively as a raid team.
However, I have an unpopular opinion as I hope it is nerfed, solely so that more people could experience it. That’s what Classic is all about. It’s 15 year old content, if you need an ego, or some feeling of prestige or superiority in order to validate your time in this video game, then you may want to go spend time off this game, doing stuff in real-life.
Nobody cares if you quit because the content that you once seen as the pinnacle of challenging is too easy for your liking. If that were the case, there would’ve been a chain-reaction of people quitting the game because Warglaives are everywhere.