Please move the horde cave in AV so we can prove our point

[Darksoul-incendius]

Everyone says this is a player issue, but if you watch almost every AV it is exactly the same Alliance get choked at their own choke points because Horde have a huge starting advantage.

Stop queuing AV so horde complain. Then and only then will blizz consider doing something that encourages alliance to requeue

[Qpon-smolderweb]

You’re right, out of the millions of human beings that happened to pick alliance, every single one of them somehow just can’t adapt to new video game strategies and has major problems with basic functions like learning

I sense the sarcasm, but it sure seems that way.

All this talk about AV and I see 0% discussion of strategy, 100% scapegoat excuses, playing the victim, and pleading for changes to the map … a map that was never a problem for alliance in vanilla.

It’s pretty hard to learn from mistakes if you refuse to admit that you make any.

[Agerth-atiesh]

Lol, interesting take.

I was just pointing out that it very clearly is not an Alliance advantage to be forced into a situation that Horde could easily create for themselves but, funnily, choose not to and even more funnily, have a 90+% win rate.

I do think A has to make lemonade out of lemons though. In poker it’s an advantage to act last because the opponents have to commit first. A can wait for H to commit to attacking Bal, going around to SF, or coming all the way across and fighting them. Technically H could blockade them and push a small advantage but “sugar and sperglings” probably rule that out…

But unless I lose my job I’ll never see Classic AV anyway. Sigh.

[Brokenwind-grobbulus]

You’re right, out of the millions of human beings that happened to pick alliance, every single one of them somehow just can’t adapt to new video game strategies and has major problems with basic functions like learning

I sense the sarcasm, but it sure seems that way.

All this talk about AV and I see 0% discussion of strategy, 100% scapegoat excuses, playing the victim, and pleading for changes to the map … a map that was never a problem for alliance in vanilla.

It’s pretty hard to learn from mistakes if you refuse to admit that you make any.

That’s pretty much the long and short of it. What makes matters worse is when alliance posted DO speak out against alliance bad strategies (there are a handful that see the issue for what it actually is), they are browbeat as faction traders or sock puppets.

[Innocent-arcanite-reaper]

Think it’s more likely that you get the baron mount to drop 3x in a row.

But still possible.

[Zakiri-stalagg]

When you actually look at the distance comparison it’s beyond absurd- we need to flip the map and keep everything else the same just so Horde can find out what it’s like.

[Saurlex-arugal]

Sorry, you’ll have to wait for the retail expansion where that was changed.

[Niia-whitemane]

Why is that? Use your words like a big boy, you can do it!

[Pizza-cenarius]

Every AV I’m in none of the Alliance listen to direction. They tunnel to SHGY like bots. It’s 100% a player problem.

[Studlygnome-herod]

The Horde racial traits are far better than Alliance in PvP. Fixing the cave will help a little in the beginning bum the root of the problem is the racial traits. Its the reason so many players chose Horde. They knew the racials were OP and the Horde would dominate.

[Eristiah-ashkandi]

Alliance winning during 1.12 proves nothing other than that the Horde back then apparently had no idea how to play the map to their advantage. I don’t know why you think that proves anything other than Horde 15 years ago were apparently bad. I get that Horde have a pathological need to feel superior to Alliance that blinds them to this, but the issues with the map in favor of Horde are plain to see.

[Studlygnome-herod]

Right, clearly when the horde kills 20 alliance who don’t dismount but instead try to ride straight past to galv but get wiped… every single game… has nothing to do with their loss.

I mean, how are you supposed to pvp when you don’t even get off your mount.

The amount of arrows I get from their towers during pvp where we still kill them over and over is crazy high.

It’s not about a few seconds on the bridge, it’s the fact that horde has to sit in a 90 minute queue to play, so literally only the most dedicated pvp players will even still try. And starting location doesn’t matter when the horde sits at 200hks and the highest alliance player sits at around 40.

They die, then die again, and again, and again, and again. How can you expect to when any game when half your team is dead at any given time.

Because dismounting ends up in the Alliance being stunned by Warstomp and/or Feared all over the map while many Horde are immune to fear and cannot be warstomped stupid. Giving one side super powers and the other side…meh, = one side dominating. It’s not your pvp prowess. Its not the that Alliance players are bad. It’s simple imbalance. Really, why do YOU think so many players picked Horde over alliance on PvP servers? Oh because they like to roleplay Horde…got it.

[Rene-bloodsail-buccaneers]

This map is not the original vanilla map. It is designed to give the Horde a starting advantage since in vanilla the Alliance won most of the time. Blizzard should have used the original map. This is not 2005, players are better on both sides, but to put in place a deliberately unbalanced map is poor judgement imho.

[Gythriel-windseeker]

which original one?
There are 3 distinct map layouts used during vanilla iirc
one of which, if you hate this one, you would really not like

[Geryth-grobbulus]

Moving the starting cave will help but it won’t change the imbalances of Iceblood Graveyard versus Stonehearth Graveyard. Stonehearth GY needs it’s choke widened as well as moving the horde starting cave.

[Konoref-sulfuras]

It’s funny, back when Alliance had the super easy method to do premades, they saw a massively higher win ratio, but now that it’s slightly harder for that, and now Horde members can join with their guild/friends it’s a lot lower.

How are the Alliance queue times, from what I’m told they are much lower, in the single digit marks compared to one hour and 45ish minutes on Horde.

It’s a shock how a little change can cause so much complaining.

[Gythriel-windseeker]

None of those things ever happened, except the cave switching locations, several times

[Eristiah-ashkandi]

Also, move the SHGY flag to the other side of the choke so Alliance rather than Horde actually benefit from the choke (and move SHB NW a fair bit so it’s not in the FoS), and add hills around IBGY spawn so horde have only one way to path out…up and around IBGY flag.

[Tupacshockur-kilrogg]

I mean… I remember having my a$$ kicked up and down the field by Alliance back in the day… maybe they were just more skilled back then

[Aguamenti-ashkandi]

Simple fix, make the spawn points flip.

See how often horde plays when they have to actually do something other than queue.

If you are going to make it not vanilla then don’t be vanilla and actually go back into the game and change something.

Av needs switched caves. Flip it for the next 3 months, then after that have it alternate randomly.