Please make Lone Wolf for Marksman OPTIONAL

Please stop with this nonsense. MM should be a petless spec, relying on its finesse (Run Speed), agility (Dodge) and self sufficient toolkit (utility) coupled with a powerhouse big hitter style (BIG dps, casted or rapid fire) in combat.

What we have right now is a watered down version of a “Ranger” concept. That is completely bound by an archaic pet system. Its defenses are base strictly on cooldowns that are easily exploited (Disengage+Posthaste and Cheetah being negated by any slow and unlimited gap closers, Shell (not being able to attack during this is stupid as hell, Paladins get to bubble and burst) Feign death being trash)

Its healing potential and defensive utilities being non existent without a pet is absolutely mindboggling and a poor design. For what? 10% Damage buff?

What is going on right now is MM has no utility when it comes to Lone wolf vs Pet, and people complain about not having 10% damage increase because they want their pet out? I want all the utility that comes with the pet while having no pet at all. But thats not going to happen.

Marksman = Marksman your classic Archer-Ranger. Want a pet? go for BM, want a weird hybrid noone asked for but is top tier, go Surv.

This topic is ridiculous, stop crying over 10% damage because you want a pet and have the benefit of having all the utility that comes with it. Especially stop crying when there is an active way around it and you havent figured it out yet.

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At the end of the day, the Marksman Hunter is a hunter. It should have a pet. If they want a petless physical ranged dps they need to actually introduce a new class for it rather than forcing multiple archetypes/fantasies into 2 spec.

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While generally in agreement with you, it does not seem conducive to a constructive conversation to call the opinions of those who disagree with you “nonsense” or to tell them to “stop crying”. :frowning:

Not going to lie, I’m not 100% sure what abut the “hunter” part of that automatically implies a pet. To me, a hunter is someone who hunts beasts; beasts can be part of the hunting (fox hunting, Duck Hunt, darn that giggling dog) but are certainly not required.

The fantasies seem pretty obvious and are still in tune with “Hunter”:

  • Beast Mastery hunters are the Fox Hunt or Duck Hunt hunters.
  • Survival Hunters are boar hunters (…with grenades? Dunno, still love MSV but that seemed odd to me even in the days of Explosive Trap in Legion); boar hunters use spears and boar hounds after all.
  • Marks Hunters are Duck Blind or Deer Hunters, relying on superior marksmanship to get their kills.
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That’s true, but hunter and pet has been the class fantasy since vanilla. If they’re going to change that basic dynamic, change it, don’t half *** it. “Here is 10% extra damage for not using your pet” is a really half ***ed… wait that’s giving them too much credit. It’s a 1% ***ed way to implement a sniper fantasy in the hunter class.

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It’s a heck of a lot better than when it was a talent that was basically required - and I say that as someone who honestly came to the class because of Lone Wolf.

Don’t get me wrong, I love lone wolf because I like not having a pet. That said I’d rather it be a talent, making it an actual conscious choice. It being required to me means that Blizzard either didn’t know how or didn’t even want to try to balance the talents in the row it was in.

Hunters don’t have to have a pet, but a lot of hunters do, and use them.
Its a joy to work with a good retriever when duck hunting.
The hunters that roll with a pack, they are the Beast Masters. Its all about the dogs, killing is often pretty incidental.
But when hunting dangerous game, (the target, quarry, mark), the dog chases it down, warns and defends the hunter if necessary, harasses and slows the game so the hunter can catch up, and make the kill.
This is exactly how I use my pet as a MM Hunter, at the least!
At the least, if a MM has a pet out, they should be doing the same, unless of course the Target isn’t dangerous.

Hello DEATH-KNIGHT. Your insights on the class betray you.
Marksman are watered down Rangers? I think you know better.
We are watered down Marksmen.
Tools we used to have are gone, I can’t help that, nor can I determine other classes abilities. Some things it seems impossible to get away from, anymore.
Losing my pet will not make that better. I am pretty sure the spec was designed to have a constant pet.
I wonder, why aren’t you posting as your Hunter?

Because Hunters have always had pets. That has been one of the two core staples of the class since their inception. Pets and ranged weapons. In fact it was those two staples that caused me to start playing the class, because I really liked the idea of having both at the same time. Why should Blizzard start ditching these staples instead of making new classes to fit new RPG archetypes into? Why should Hunters only get one true Hunter spec?

We can talk about the meaning of the Hunter archetype in fantasy all we want, and there is basis to it. However, what is most important is what the class has been in World of Warcraft.

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I thought I was like this… But even the “neatness” of the talent didn’t make up for the spec being an archaic remnant of a dead set of mechanics. Because MM failed to deliver an engaging playstyle outside of the opener, I was drawn back to Survival (with the pet) over the possibility of playing solo archer. I leveled my hunter somewhat painstakingly in Legion as MM… I would’ve loved RSV with LW though instead… :sob:

I honestly believe that a big problem with the AiS playstyle became the scaling health pools. I have clips thru MoP of a buddy and I dropping other players to 20% in openers without stuns, and elites being obliterated by AiS… For a brief window at BFA launch (or maybe it was alpha), Careful Aim was causing AiS to crit for ~30k in the opener. This really appealed to me (80% because that damage was Broken, 20% because that’s what MM should have felt like design-wise), and I toyed with the idea of hopping back to my hunter after I leveled my Monk. Fun Detected! Both AiS and Careful Aim were changed to be less “fun” before I got the chance. Between that and the loss of Thas’dorah’s on-use, I couldn’t bear getting past level 113…

(I since pushed my hunter to 120 as BM… and I highly dislike BM for fantasy reasons - I played Beastlord in EQ and I want my Beast Master to be like Rexxar, up close in melee…)

Lone Wolf became too conflated with an isolated Marksman identity. I believe this needs to be corrected in the long term, but I also think the skill is okay how it is…

It’s as close to optional now as it ever as been and as it pretty much ever could be.

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Ouch! Close, but this may be closer: the spec being the lobotomized remnant of an archaic set of mechanics.
The mechanics, the foundations of the Spec. are old, a simple definition of archaic. Old, as in old design. Old proven design, still recognizable from the dawn of the first day a Marks told their pet to quit drooling on the food, I’m the killer, you’re the catcher, to present.
The design mechanics are sound, but so much has been pared away, there is not much left to work with.
The spec is being starved to death.

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Ha yes. I mean in a systematic view of combat. Rogues used to Ambush and do 30-40% damage with the yellow hit. That was pruned back heavily. Mages used to Ap Pom Pyro and melt even some of the tankiest of enemies. Aimed shot fit very well in that system. Now, mage hardly hard casts pyros, which are only reliving glory days via the PvP greater talent. Rogues do most of their damage through their finishers - not their openers. What I mean is it’s an old philosophy that doesn’t mesh well with the current game pace.

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The current game pace sucks.

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…to my chagrin, received the response “Ok, Boomer.”

But a hunter without a pet is basically a mage. Blizzard should probably remember that.

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Just since I see it being mentioned a bit more, I just wanted to throw out there that marksman hunters are quite fine in pvp and it seems like they’re going to be just fine in shadowlands for pvp it seems in my opinion.

The choice between pet or not really isn’t hurting you as much as some of you seemingly want to believe if we’re specifically talking about pvp, if anything I’d say if the marksman hunter isn’t getting much help or is going to 1v1 that they should use a pet.

My hunter has the same name as my Dk, feel free to look it up. 120 WRA.

Hunter is not defined by their pets, not in the WoW terms and not in the literal meaning of the word. It means to hunt.

Neither is the term Marksman. Marksman is a blanket terminology for all races it is by defacto the Ranger spec, and should be treated more like the Ranger spec. 50 yard range baseline. Heavy hitting abilities, self reliance with high dodge and mobility. Easy fix for the spec. No need to even pretend to have a pet.

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Again, the two core staples of the Hunter class has always been the ranged weapon and the pet. If you want a petless archer spec then go ask Blizzard for a new class to put it in instead of diluting the Hunter class with it.

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Blizzard already accept that some.ppl dont want a pet.

They are a liability a lot of the time. Buggy, terrible target swapping, run off randomly sometimes and aggro stuff.

I want lone wolf to be viable.

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Pet issues like these have been greatly reduced for a long time. Either way though, these sorts of things are not reasons to ditch the mechanic of the pet altogether. It just means Blizzard needs to fix those things too.

The Hunter class uses pets. That’s how it should be because that is what Hunters are in World of Warcraft. Again, if you want a petless ranger or archer then go ask Blizzard for one. Goodness knows they’re ultra slacking in terms of introducing new classes, and a petless ranger archetype would be pretty high on the list for new classes.

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