There is zero reason to make the GM’s jobs harder and STILL make people deal with that crap when the system works fine as it is. This is NOT a systemic problem that needs solved.
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I will click no if I don’t see a legit reason, but most of the time, while I’m reading and thinking on it, it either passes or fails, and I’m like, “Phew!” lol
I think for me, it’s usually because I didn’t actually see what the problem was since I tend to focus on myself and what I need to do. If I didn’t see any of this for myself, I feel I don’t have the right to condemn the person in question. I don’t have the right to defend them either. It has to be super obvious for me to vote yes or no.
GMs job harder? its their job to answer complaints. its not making it harder, its making them do their job, you know the one they get paid to do.
I question if they do their jobs in the first place and not getting a free paycheck. If the classic servers, rife with botting, is anything to go by.
What are you even on about? 
You weren’t there for it when it happened and why they added the debuff, so you have no clue what you’re talking about. And no one should have to leave because one person in a team is being toxic.
Just out of curiosity, how often are you getting kicked to be this passionate about it?
I’m starting to wonder if that’s the OP, because they keep using the same wording.
Isn’t this kind of the problem here? No one really knows how often “innocent” people get kicked. No one really knows how often someone decides to be a butthead once a day. Both sound like off-chances to me.
about as often as those mean ole’ kidnappers that hold people hostage that Sendryn is afraid of.
The ones you don’t think are a problem worth having a system for?
So why put in any work to change the system from the status quo if it’s just not a problem worth considering?
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Exactly my point. Ty!
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I mean, that is their job, to monitor and control players’ behaviors. They reinforced the staff in this sense a few years ago and have worked flawlessly against trolls and people who insult and berate other players on chat channels for instance.
You make it sound like allowing one kick without giving you the deserter buff would automatically mean a vast majority of players would go and grief pugs. That wouldn’t happen. It’s unrealistic and exaggerated.
You might say “well it did happen!!!”, sure, because GMs never punished them appropriately. It was also a common thing to insult, berate, and harrass players through chat channels and even the mail box. This stopped being an issue ever since they implemented the Social Contract.
As soon as LFG griefers see their conduct entails account suspension, they won’t do that anymore. No need to have players waiting 30 mins after they’ve been randomly kicked.
I understand that’s your opinion, I disagree, though. I think it is a problem that needs to be solved.
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simple fix, remove the deserter debuff from the people being vote kicked. that is the problem that is being discussed.
also for those who claim im somehow new to the forums or the game. Ive actively had as sub from 2006-BFA, and on and off since then. Ive seen people abuse the system. There is no question of this.
I dont need to be a victim of something to want it to be changed, simply because the debuff makes little sense to be a thing.
Okay let’s try this another way.
You just told me those two scenarios happen at the same frequency right? Whether it’s one innocent person being kicked, or one butthead holding four people hostage right?
So if they happen at the same frequency, which one of those two scenarios results in more “victims”? The one where one innocent person is the victim, or the one where four innocent people are the victim?
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If they deserved the kick, then they deserved the debuff. This system isn’t going to account for everything, especially not the chaotic whimsy of human beings. That is where the GMs come in.
No you can’t because Blizzard already gave you the tools to deal with the situation.
Kick.
Them.
The only actual unfair scenario is where you are the lone person queuing into a group of a 4 man premade. They can “abuse” you and there is nothing you can do about it.
On the flip side, if you queue with 1 person, you trump any group with 3 man queue group since they need the 4th to kick in that scenario and presumably you or your friend is never going to kick the other.
I can’t what? You can most definitely report them. And kick them as well.
They’re not mutually exclusive.
I am not against kicking players. I’m in favor of removing the deserter buff if it’s the first time of the day you’ve been kicked.
If you have a player in your group who starts griefing and stops participating so you can vote kick them and not have the deserter buff, then kick and report.
When the player sees their account is suspended for bad conduct, they won’t do that anymore.
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oh dont talk about GMs, someone thinks they work too hard, and sending in reports might overtax them.
The kick is the punishment, the debuff is an added insult to injury. if you think they need further punishment Id say report them.
And that’s the entire point. It is meant to try and make people think twice about their shenanigans.
And they currently have a boatload of that to do without adding something to it that doesn’t need added that deserter debuff fixes.
Enough to be a problem for four people instead of one— like it was in the first place to make the debuff become a thing.
Blizzard disagrees with you. It is what it is.
It’s not simple and causes more problems and work. If it were “simple” or a “problem,” it would have been fixed. It never comes up in interviews or deep dives or anything ever. Why? Because it’s not a widespread issue.
Thank you. That’s an excellent way to put it.