Please just remove deserter

Community General Discussion
81

Blizzard generally won’t involve themselves with vote kicks as they believe the community will sort itself out for the most part.

Is is very much intended that they can remove you for any possible reason and that you get the debuff for being removed so that you might reconsider what you did and avoid doing it again. They’re not going to get into a case by case argument and are likely okay with the occasional unfair kick if it means players can avoid the actual trolls.

Like I said earlier, it could be time to revisit the debuff as the original triggering event that caused the implementation is no longer an issue; however with Ai dungeons coming soon it might not be worth the work and risk.

82

You’re being the dense one here. A group literally can kick someone for ANY reason they want. You could be kicked for having a dumb name or being a race they disapprove of. At least 3 people decided YOU no longer deserved to be there. Even if their decision wasn’t based on anything more than wanting the box to go away, they still “voted” (as letting the box sit eventually returns a no).

Whether YOU think it is a “fair and just reason” is not up for debate. You already lost the only vote that mattered. Now you’re just arguing like a petulant child because it wasn’t fair…when fair literally doesn’t matter. Blizzard has NEVER policed groups and arbitrated on fairness. Even non queue groups allow the leader to be a literal dictator. Picking someone for a group or kicking/removing someone from the group doesn’t have to allow actual worth or merit.

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83

You…just flat out didn’t read the rest of the post…

Again, we’re not dignifying their delusions as actual reasons.

No, I shouldn’t, and that shouldn’t happen to innocent players.

Nope, its purpose was to deter people trolling groups. I did nothing but help clear a dungeon, so what happened was not its intention.

Again, nope. The rest of the party just said yes because “it was there.” They had no beef with me, and had no idea why I was even being kicked.

And either way, if they really wanted to remove me, that’s fine. But, as I said before, I shouldn’t get a deserter debuff for no reason. For the upteenth time, there was a proposed change that would fix most of these issues. You’re simply arguing for the power to troll players yourself.

If I can be kicked for “any possible reason,” then there’s a good chance there’s nothing to reconsider and avoid doing. If I got kicked because I’m playing an orc, should I reconsider and roll a different race? I get why the system was made. I was there when it was made. I’ve acknowledged in this post that it was made for a reason. There still needs to be safeguards to protect players from being griefed because of it.

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84

I wasn’t replying to “the rest of the post”. I was replying to your comment which said, in part:

“One person decided he didn’t like the dungeon being that easy, and decided by himself that I was banned from dungeons for half an hour?”

85

Man OP just… explain what you’re doing and ask if it’s okay and you wouldn’t have gotten kicked

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86

I wasn’t around in Cata, but was there a 15-minute cooldown for dungeon queues back then as well?

87

you may not be, but everyone else is, including blizzard.

no such thing as “guilty” or “innocent” here. only those that are removed and not removed.

or bad behavior/non teamplayer behavior, which is what you exhibited.

we already went over this. “no” was just there to, yet they didnt just choose it.

you were kicked for a reason.

they did, that’s why they clicked yes. nothing else to really say here.

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88

Clearing a dungeon faster doesn’t count as bad behavior. Thank you for admitting yourself there wasn’t a legitimate reason.

And yet, a great deal of people will click yes just to get it over with. If the kick doesn’t go through, someone might get mad and start causing problems. Hence why they just “go along” with it. It’s not because there was any reason to kick someone.

I love that you left out the rest of the quote because it didn’t fit your narrative. A kick is one thing. Being blocked from playing for no reason is another. Quit being this dense.

89

Correct. And since you won’t often get the reason, all you can do is quickly think “is there anything I could have done differently?” maybe there is, maybe there isn’t, but you’ve been put in the corner for 30min to think about it.

No, as obviously that would be absurd. In this scenario, if you knew the reason was your race, you’d just have to go “that’s dumb, but whatever”

Perhaps you missed two of my posts saying I’m not against it being revisited, as the original cause is now a non issue as those problem dungeons are something you have to choose to do and random dungeons are no longer a requirement for the type of person who is hunting specific items due to mythic and mythic+ existing.

In any case, at best they may wait and see how delves go. At worst, they will do nothing; it hasn’t bothered them enough so far and they would likely have better data than us on if it’s a big problem. You being upset could be acceptable to them if it still prevents the issue it was implemented to solve.

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90
  1. you dont get to decide what counts as bad behavior
  2. we already went over that you used the crystals incorrectly
  3. “clearing a dungeon faster” is not something everyone wants

you just gave us a reason:

we went over that already.

the rest wasnt relevant. people decided they didn’t want to play with you and so they kicked you. and being kicked gets you the debuff to deter you from being kicked in the future.

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91

I’m not sure, I ran with guildies only due to healer changes making healers more scarce.

92
  1. Then neither do you, so quit trying.
  2. Nope, I didn’t. WotLK is not current content, and the mechanics are nearly obsolete. Come to think of it, I haven’t seen the water boss show up a single time SINCE Wrath was current.
  3. Okay? Then someone can say something. It doesn’t warrant a kick or a deserter debuff.

Nope.

Also nope. People will try to avoid potential conflict, so innocent people are kicked just to appease the petty jerk who decided to initiate it.

Since you really are this dense and can’t change, I’ll spell it out for you - getting kicked should not immediately give you the debuff. That’s the problem, and there was a proposed fix. You’re justifying trolling.

1 Like
93

The Dungeon Deserter debuff was introduced in Patch 3.3.0 of Wrath. It simply said:

“A Vote Kick feature will be available in the event a member of a party is not performing to the expectations of the other members.”

In 3.3.3. a change was made to require a reason for the vote, which would be shown to everyone but the person they wanted to kick.

So as far as Blizzard is concerned, the only criteria is that “a member of the party is not performing to the expectations of the other members”. Whatever those expectations might happen to be.

I recall when I was very new being kicked for basically being dumb. I was on my mage doing a vanilla instance and I was repeatedly using Polymorph on things because I thought that would help the group. They told me to stop but I kept going cause I thought hey, I know what I’m doing but…eventually, I was kicked. Because - my poly was actually casuing the targed mob to regain its health faster and therefore it was harder to kill. Had I clearly read the spell notes? Obviously not. Was noob. And was mistake I did not make again.

Best idea if you want to do something that affects the group is to ask. And unless you get a “go for it”, don’t do it. I guarantee if you had done that, you would not have been kicked. At least for that.

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94

This is an acceptable loss for blizzard. They’d rather risk you being unhappy with the potential to fix your behaviour if it was actually malicious rather than upset 4 people, even if it’s a dumb reason.

They’re not interested in who is right or wrong, they are interested in higher % of satisfied customers or reduced risk of % unsatisfied customers.

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95

I’m just gonna keep quoting this.

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96

That’s fine, but you will likely just attract more negative replies.

I was trying my best to be objective, but you don’t appear open to my discussion. It’s likely you need a bit more time for the frustration to wear off.

Trust me, I’ve had dumb kicks and frustration before and I’m definitely not in the mood for people telling me I’m being an idiot right after it happened either. Most of the replies aren’t constructive as they for the most part are criticism or can be interpreted as an attack because text is difficult like that.

I’ve tried to give blizzards possible reasoning and logic, but it is mostly guesses on my part.

For my own story, I was once kicked from a normal levelling freehold run because right after the first staircase when you enter, I didn’t hug right and pull through to the pillar as I figured someone would pull the nearby adds anyway so I grabbed the nearest tent + the ledge guys to aoe down.

I asked why I got kicked and obviously whispered the guy who initiated it because he told me I didn’t know the route.

It was a very dumb kick and I was annoyed for a while. However, in the grand scheme of things it didn’t matter. What I learned was that I should attempt the most popular skips that the community does in levelling dungeons and then just pick up the extra adds after someone messes up. That way, I look like the hero instead of the villain and I solve problems when they arise instead of pre empting something that may not even be likely.

This may all appear as me being smugly superior and not getting bothered by dumb stuff, but that’s because I’m chilling outside in my garden, in summer with my dog right now, on the forums.

There are definitely times in games where I absolutely lose my chill, tell my wife I’m playing with absolute idiots (I still love you random strangers, but you’re giving me gray hairs when you do the same dumb thing 3 pulls in a row!) or slap my desk in anger. I’m immediately embarrassed that I couldn’t control my outburst and I’ll still be salty for a while but over time I try to make little improvements.

I think improvements to the current system could be made if Blizzard wanted to. I just don’t know how Ai dungeons will affect things and I can’t know if any suggestions I make would have consequences that I can’t foresee.

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97

This is why solo dungeons are going to be the next frontier of wow.

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98

Just to point out, like Robo said, it goes both ways. You didn’t ask about crystal usage, you just used them. They didn’t tell you to stop, they just kicked you. Whether you think it’s a good reason or not, it happened, it sucks to get hit with the debuff, next time say something.

Also, you have no way of knowing if the others just hit yes to the vote kick. I was leveling with a guildie and we had another guildie on their 70 queuing with us, so there were 3 of us. Guildie who’s leveling has to deal with children, one of the 2 not in our group initiate a vote kick (after like literally 1 or 2 packs being AFK), I read, hit “no,” vote goes through because the other guildie hit “yes,” because they didn’t read. Was a mistake on her part. Did it suck to have happen? Yeah, but at that point there’s nothing you can do about except accept it and move on.

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99

Follower dungeons will presumably start at level 10, along with Dragonflight as the default leveling timeline, come the next expansion. I feel for everyone pre-60 until then, but there is a fix for this sort of thing, in the leveling space, coming down the pipeline.

Deserter applying to player-initiated kicks is absolutely outdated, I feel for you.

100

It works both ways. Those people can also leave the group and “go do something else.” OP’s replies make more sense to me. Let the debuff kick in after the second vote kick. 30 minutes on the first offense is too harsh. But having it kick in on the second offense of the day will still be enough to discourage the toxic behavior you were referring to, IMO.