Please do the Item Level "squish"

In this post, an Item Level Squish was proposed for ToC to make Ulduar more relevant. (blizzard did respond to this)

One of the biggest issues I have with retail and it started in Wrath was the fact that the next patch will completely invalidate anything you did previous by making all the previous gear nearly pointless to go for and thus making it almost pointless to do any type of raid outside of the current one, other than for trasnmog, a mount, title or achievement. I firmly believe that raiding should be a progression, that you work though the entire expansion.

Vanilla and TBC did catch up mechanics well, it gave you solid gear, but you still had a reason to go back and do previous raids. Even Karazhan was still worth doing for a fresh character that had access to Magisters Terrace.


I completely disagree with you. They should not make changes to the gear scaling.
There are other ways for them to keep past content relevant. Changing the item level across the board could drastically impact how certain classes play at the end of the expansion. There are mages and warriors that are willing to play the class in earlier phases knowing they will get massively better the closer we get to the best gear. Reducing the item level could mean those classes never play the way we remember them playing in original wotlk. If the purpose of classic is to recreate the same feeling with minor changes to make the game playable for modern audiences then this change is antithetical to that goal.
I’m the gm of a guild with 80 plus raiders. We’ve been discussing this in discord all day. This is not the right way to address a short pvp season or them trying to make ulduar more relevant. We will still run ulduar, it’s actually a fun instance and now will have Valanyr and trinkets we still need to obtain with only 1 togc lockout.


ICC wouldn’t change at all, I don’t see the issue, those classes really do not come on line until ICC.

Warriors doing 300(if that) less DPS in TOC wont make much of a difference when most classes will be in the same boat.

If you have a better idea to make the previous content relevant voice it or stop pretending like there is a better way then offering nothing up. Warriors are mages will play just like they did back in the day, missing out on 10-20 of the stats total across your character sheet will make a very minor difference.
I love warriors, they are by far my favorite class, I was a fury warrior throughout all of Wrath back when it was retail, I am going to play my warrior. I want this change to happen because it is better for the game.

I would rather them fix the mistakes of the past than to continue down the “no changes” road that has not lead to the outcomes people thought it would. There are specific changes that should be made to make the game better overall. The whole reset each patch thing started in wrath and it was a HUGE mistake.

I think this stems from you “allowing” those people to play the characters because of the pay off at the end of the expansion. There is no “willing to play the class” when it comes to mages and warriors, they are some of the most diehard for their classes. To say it again, Most likely it is you allowing them to have a raid spot because of the payoff in ICC. Stop pretending it is something else.


Homie your “guild of over 80 raiders” have 2 clears on sunwell logged and youre grey parsing raiding 4 days a week… I don’t think you have a leg to stand on in this argument at all whether or not the power creep will be effected so drastically.

Hey, if his ilvl was 20 higher maybe his parses wouldn’t be grey.

Just remember if we make Ulduar more relevant during ToC, it also makes ToC more relevant during ICC.

You wanna worry about going to ToC when there’s heroic ICC to progress? Didn’t think so


TOC will take like 30-40 minutes for the most part it is going to be like Gruul’s lair and no one really cared that much about doing that.

Remember, nearly all cooldowns will reset when the bosses die, you can do the bosses back to back to back, without waiting on cooldowns, you just do them.

I am betting guilds will speed clear TOC in under 20 minutes.

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In order to make Ulduar more relevant I propose we make ToGC25 and TOC25 share a lockout. Now instead of gearing alts and friends in TOC I’m forced to go back to Ulduar.
In addition to this we could add a legendary that healers will need to farm the rest of the xpac for. In addition to THAT we could add an extremely unique mount that only drops from the most difficult encounter in the raid, that way even during ICC it might still be somewhat challenging to obtain.

There are plenty of incentives to go back to Ulduar and adjusting the ilvl will just mean it will be more tedious than it needs to be when we are on our 30th week of farm.

Resetting every patch is something I was looking forward to in wotlk, its my main reason for hating retail. Refarming t5 during t6 was a chore not a luxury. Going back and reattuning people in heroics during t4 was a chore not a luxury. If people enjoyed farming previous content so much why did blizzard feel inclined to add a skip in BT? It’s because we don’t actually want to farm the n-1 tier while raiding the n’th tier.


On second thought, we rake in hundreds of thousands of gold organizing GDKP’s in TBC so this will simply afford us more gear to sell to terrible players for longer.

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What a pathetic attempt to invalidate an argument. You bothered to go look up logs and couldn’t even look at the guild calendar. We’ve been clearing sunwell for a while and this is my new main for wrath.
I think I have plenty of basis for my argument. I played all of the original expansions and have now played all of classic clearing the content when it was current and leading my raid and guild. The change they are proposing will impact player power and I don’t trust blizzard to control the tuning of that and it not end up worse than just leaving it alone.


You saw that it’s not just toc gear they would lower but also icc gear right? If they lower toc gear by 13 ilvls then they will do the same for icc.

My suggestion is to make no change to the system as ulduar will still be plenty relevant if they leave it as is now.

On the topic of allowing people to play their class early because they get better later, partially true, but I also know the players playing those classes. I know they want to be the op warrior/mage in icc and they aren’t happy that blizzard could make a change that would end in them never reaching that potential.

This is Wotlk Classic, not Wotlk SOM.

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Make Ulduar last longer by DELAYING TOC…not nerfing TOC ilvl. If they are hell bent on ilvl squish, then make it 6 ilevels not 13. The next “tier” is supposed to be an UPGRADE not a side-grade…


Delaying ToC has its own problems though. Then you’re stuck with an entire patch cycle of JUST ToC, and if you say accelerate ICC then you have the problem of people not getting all the gear they want from ToC.

You can tell who never played wow before classic by the confidence someone has in blizzards ability to do an ilvl squish.


There’s a pretty big difference between squishing 4 entire expansions into a 10 level range than lowering the ilvl from a raid from 232 to 226. RIP your 4 STR, Human Male Plate-DPS.

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did you not read the post??? icc’s gear ilvl would drop, meaning less stats on gear


5 to 10 armor pen rating off of a piece of gear by reducing it by 13 item levels is not that big of a deal, I really wish people would stop exaggerating the impact of this change.

The gear will still have the same stats, just a few less on them, your gems will still have the same stats, you can still get to armor pen cap, you might just need 1 more gem or 1 different piece of gear.

You guys are ridiculous. Chicken littles over here pretending like the sky has crashed down around them when in reality, it has lowered an inch.

So I went and did the math.
13 items levels less for a warrior would result in: 245 less strength, 136 less crit rating, 110 less armor pen, 41 less hit rating, 37 less expertise rating, 2 less sockets, 33.2 less dps on your mh, and 31.1 on your offhand.
That would be the equivalent of playing your character with NO chest and bracers. 2 entire slots of your gear just gone. That doesn’t even touch on the dps loss on weapons or their max damage loss.
You are grossly misrepresenting it by saying 10 less armor pen when the totality of the change would be MUCH MUCH higher.
They need to backtrack on this idea and assure the player base that they aren’t going to screw up the great expansion that is Wotlk. If they want to propose massive changes like this in the future they should do it with numbers and data.


The difference is quite literally just wearing normal mode gear instead of Heroic mode gear. The squish will take Heroic gear from 258 to 245.
Without the squish Normal mode is 245. That is what the difference is, the gear is the same between the 2, just a slightly different number for the stats.

It is not the end of the world.

You clearly don’t understand power scaling.

You also are still showing ilvls from toc as if you don’t know this will also effect icc gear and end of game scaling.