We are Stormwind. Existence as you know it is over. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Third Option (‘The Baine Bloodhoof Special’) * Be useless and constantly in need of rescue
How did it traumatize them? Are we talking a legitimate grievance, or are we talking something like being salty over going to Sunday school instead of playing sports or video games when they were kids?
I don’t mind Alliance villains, though I’m not sure if Anduin’s the right choice for that.
Let me find as neutral a way to respond as possible to reply.
The phrase “recovered Catholic” doesn’t make the distinction between trauma caused by specific Catholics and Catholicism itself. And who are “the ill” you’re referring to?
While the cover-up of those sexual assaults was horrible and those involved sound be punished to the full extent of the law… those involved in the abuse and concealing it make up less than 2% of Catholic priests worldwide. Blaming the whole Catholic church/the religion itself for that is as bigoted as blaming all Muslims for 9/11 or ISIS, or all of Japan for the Yakuza.
Yet there’s a clear double standard that’s emerging in media and societies (one that people from Youtubers like Sargon of Akkad to even two of the four founders of the New Atheist Movement - Dawkins and Harris - have acknowledged).
What are my supposed second and third assumptions? I made a clear distinction between different types of former Catholics based on their choices.
I never spun a conspiracy theory about Blizzard developers, just said theories based on their actions. When it comes to faction leaders that are religious figures, which ones? There’s a difference between religious figures and religious adherents. The only religious figures I can think of among faction leaders are Velen, Vol’jin as of SL, maybe Anduin, maybe Magni and Tyrande. That’s less than a third of the faction leaders.
Got it, I’m a biggot, Luxio is a liar. And you are a true force for truth and morality. I’m gonna chalk your childish outburst up to a basic lack of maturity and an inability to separate your personal feelings from your religious affiliation. I’m sorry that criticism of the Catholic Church feels like a personal attack on you. It isn’t.
Lets try and get it back on the topic of lore.
So not relevant to the point you asserted. Or the point I made.
If you want to prove that Blizzard has a bias against religion, you’re going to want to do so by showing they portray more religious people as evil than good. Not that they portray less than 50% of the games most significant people as also being religious figures.
Edit: Or I suppose you could try to show that they more frequently show religious movements/organizations as antagonistic than virtuous.
I didn’t say Luxio was a liar. I said all I have to go by is their word, so while uncertain either way I’ll give Luxio the benefit of the doubt.
You brought suspicion of bigotry on yourself; when I pointed out the double standard, you tried to justify it rather than acknowledging it or condemning it.
Something I should’ve remembered with the Mag’har/Lightbound scenario that also applies to this rl stuff; being damaged does not magically make your own abusive behavior acceptable (including people who’ve been abused by the Catholic church).
Since you’re dead-set on strawmanning me and sweeping the facts I present under the rug because they undermine your worldview let’s agree to disagree.
(I acknowledged there are valid criticisms of the Catholic Church while you ignored or tired to Ad Hominem-style discredit my evidence of the double standard…)
(people are rightly trying to push back against anti-Muslim sentiment after the 9/11 from 20 years ago, but also still using the Spanish Inquisition as ammo against Christians despite that ending over 180 years ago… see the double standard now?),
Thanks for clarifying that you meant religious vs evil religious figures. Yet Blizzard more frequently showing religious organizations/movements as antagonistic than virtuous is a trend I’ve been aware of for awhile, one that only seems to be growing and is part of the reason for my argument.
Double standard you asserted without evidence.
I asked you to get back to the lore. You opted to continue insulting me and then claim that Luxio is lying while magnanimously giving her the ‘benefit of the doubt.’ I believe we’re finished here.
No what you did was project your negative bias on me because you’ve been brainwashed that anyone who leaves the church is wrong.
By passively aggressively trying to denounce me as someone seeking victimhood, that’s showing your lack of empathy to anyone who doesn’t share your beliefs about how great the church is. You don’t want to acknowledge the the church is doing bad things, which must mean that you don’t think what the church is doing to LGBTQ+ and women is bad, but rather justified, and that’s where your political/religious bias shows up.
I’ve got plenty of lore stuff, but first… me insult you? Pot, meet kettle. I had evidence, you’re just in denial about it and trying to stop me from presenting more.
People are rightly trying to push back against anti-Muslim sentiment after the 9/11 from 20 years ago, but also still using the Spanish Inquisition as ammo against Christians despite that ending over 180 years ago … see the double standard now?
This sort of thinking is why there’s the poorly written Lightbound/Mag’har scenario. Until people can look at the full situation instead of one side or the other we’re going to get bad writing. I don’t want Anduin to get villain-batted, but right now he’s stuck serving the bad guys because he’s possessed and I wonder if there will be any residual side effects if Anduin is freed from the Jailer’s clutches.
There’s a difference between just leaving a religion and leaving a religion and becoming prejudiced against it and its followers. I pegged you for the latter based on your words. I don’t know what you’ve been through, but though I’ll have no proof beyond your word I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Calling a religious person brainwashed… how original lol. Never heard that one before (!)
Do you complain about all abuse of LBGT+ people, or only when it’s done by Christians? What is the church today doing to LBGT+ people and women?
People are rightly trying to push back against anti-Muslim sentiment after the 9/11 from 20 years ago, but also still using the Spanish Inquisition as ammo against Christians despite that ending over 180 years ago … see the double standard now?
I’m fine with villainous Alliance characters and the Scarlet Crusade, I’m just not happy with the current way Blizzard is doing things.
Which is kind of ironic given that he acknowledges that the criticisms against the Catholic church are valid, but treats any judgement made from them as an unfair double standard.
But I think the best service we can do for the thread is to allow Thadeus to have his weird, self contradictory, world view, but not clog up this discussion by feeding it.
I don’t treat it as being personally victimized, double standards are a pet peeve of mine. I was against the media when they tried to make boogeymen out of Muslims after 9/11. The problem is those judgements from valid criticisms of the Catholic Church often turn into “tar them all with the same brush” bigotry.
Weird, self contradictory worldview? That’s quite the psychological projection you’ve got there.
I doubt it.
Anduin has empathy, the most he’s going to learn from the Jailer is how to set personal boundaries.
Maybe I’m misreading but I feel like you’re saying this in argument against the Mag’har, but shouldn’t this apply to the Lightbound themselves too?
The mechagnome King actually is religious. He supports the branch of Luciferianism that supports complete Transhumanism. That’s a religion, irl.
A scientific based religion, but still a religion.
Pretty sure some of those people on your list at the bottom, practice shamanism, which is also a religion. Genn and Jaina are Light worshipers.
Malfurian is absolutely a religious figure in druidism, heck, he’s “the Green One” in neo paganism.
Even Sylvanas represents a belief in Divine Humanism, through the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow, and as Eris in representation of Discordianism. (This one’s my personal favorite because Discordianism is a philosophy that Order and Disorder are just illusions and it makes everything Sylvanas is currently doing make sense)
I would count Malfurion as a sort of religious leader as well, through druidism practices. Just because he’s not literally called a priest(ess), it doesn’t mean he doesn’t have his own followers with their own beliefs and reverence of Elune through maintaining what they believe to be her creations.
I think I should preface my comments with.
I’ve done a lot of research on Theology. It’s kind of a passion of mine.
Im not playing the victim of anything. I just think Theology is neat. The study of religion is something that’s near and dear to me, and I’ve been nothing but respectful to Thadeus and his beliefs. I myself am interested in Anthroposophy which is a psychological branch of Catholicism, so while I identify as a “recovering Catholic” I’m still an agnostic Catholic.
I distance myself from the Catholic church and went agnostic because of the Catholic Church’s stance that women are property and the belief by the church that women’s bodies and reproductive health should not be governed by the woman who owns the body. That’s my religious trauma, but I also don’t agree with how the church treats LGBT.
Don’t you consider it incredibly disrespectful to question the exact nature of someone’s trauma?
And are you admitting you were wrong about them implying it is a disease/disorder? As they were not.
Hence there’s no implication, merely inference to make one see victimization where it isn’t.
MAY BE understandable? MAY BE?
C’mon, it clearly is understandable.
Yeah, wonder who.
Wonder how many Christians face violence because of the Spanish Inquisition.
Should people just not reference it at all? What is the end goal?
See, I was on the fence with Malfurion but ultimately went the other direction. There’s certainly a kind of spiritualism to his Druidic practices, but his relationship to Cenarius or the ancients always seemed too personal and never felt like worship or faith.
Plus I was trying to make the argument that religious figures as faction leaders are, if anything, over represented. It would have felt wrong padding my number with someone I considered an edge case.
Fair enough, but I personally don’t think he’s an edge case. Cenarius is Elune’s son, after all. For Malfurion, he’s been tutored by and works with Elune’s descendant, and then spreads those teachings to his own followers. In a way, I think that could be an even more personal relationship than Tyrande has with Elune, who has to rely on visions and pleas.