“Imagine” what? The very starting premise of WoD outright prevents those same things happening there.
The entire point of Kairoz and Garrosh traveling to that point in time on AU Draenor was to preempt any of those things happening and implement their own historical alterations instead.
Also the place where he severs the bond with the elements in Shadowmoon Valley that turns into a fel volcano is instead a moonshaped cavern of shadow magic where the “star” of the crescent moon is a platform to commune with the dark star.
Not at all. the Entire reason the Orcs joined Guldan in the first place was because of his and Kil’jaeden’s tainting of the Elements, causing nature to go wild and the Elements from stop answering the Shaman’s calls, which caused the upheaval and malcontent that led the Orcs accepting Gul’dan’s offer.
And his manipulations of Ner’zhul. I forgot the most important part.
The Only thing Garrosh changed was the intial meeting of Gul’dan and Grommash, which happened after Gul’dan’s tainting of the Elements. Everything that came before that still happened exactly how it happened in the MU. (at least as far as Gul’dan was relevant.)
The upheaval hadn’t happened in AU Draenor. The Hellscream short story made a point of indicating that Draenor was effectively in a state of unusual peace, such that Grommash and his Warsongs were chafing for lack of any enemies to fight. The clans weren’t at odds, and the most embattled clans had quelled their regional foes in recent years, with the Blackrocks crushing the ogres of Gorgrond, the Warsongs clearing most of Nagrand from Highmaul occupation and the Bleeding Hollows routing the High Arakkoa out of Tanaan. Only the Frostwolves were actually under threat, with the Thunderlords still being hostile to them due to the whole Garad/Fenris situation.
Moreover other things had already changed prior to their arrival, as shown in the Gul’dan and the Stranger comic. The Legion bypassed Ner’zhul entirely, having Gul’dan start assembling his own army of Shadow Council followers (implied in-game to have originated in part as the Bonechewer Clan) and make the offer of Mannoroth’s blood without even a war underway rather than indirectly working through the Shadowmoon chieftain by ginning up fear of the draenei. And his offer was the power to be conquerors, knowing Grommash in particular would take such a deal (Grommash even admits to himself that he would take such an offer while watching his MU self during the vision in Hellscream); there was none of the “draenei are a threat” business (which MU Grom had never really bought anyway) playing off elemental unrest and the Red Pox.
“Blades of grass” and all that. Even before Garrosh came, certain things were different and Gul’dan’s plan had been changed up on AU Draenor (perhaps because his Legion masters were trying to avoid the problems that undermined it the first time, such as Ner’zhul eventually learning the truth and managing to warn Durotan and Doomhammer against drinking the blood of Mannoroth.) Instead Gul’dan took a hands-on approach to offering the orcs power and corruption, drinking the demon’s blood himself and preaching the reality of the Legion’s power and how mighty they would be as its new vanguard. There was no real effort to unify the orcs and point them at the draenei first; instead AU Gul’dan was working toward jumping straight to offering the Legion’s power and patronage as the crux for their unification.
Numerous key events in AU draenor were already different, even before Garrosh’s arrival and definitely before the disrupted blood ritual in the opening cinematic. To the point that the offering of Mannoroth’s blood even took place in a completely different region of Draenor, being staged in Tanaan Jungle atop the mountain instead of the corrupted ruins of Karabor, and at a time when the clans had to be explicitly assembled for the meeting because they weren’t a Horde yet.
I wouldn’t say that. I mean, yes some things seamed to play out differently (such as Rulkan still being alive) but I contribute this more to Garrosh coming to Draenor MUCH earlier then we did, which would make sense considering how much time it would of taken the Iron Horde to build up their Industrial Revolution.
But I think this wouldn’t of played into Gul’dan and Kil’jaeden’s overall plan, which they were unaware of Garrosh’s meddling. We know that the Throne of the Elements WAS corrupted in the AU because of the questlines there in WoD and the Elements being in Turmoil. You can argue that maybe events playing out differently caused them to not become AS corrupted as in the MU but that still happened. And considering the amount of corruption that happened in Tanaan in the AU, that only changes the location of the Corruption. Well, what originally happened in Shadowmoon now happens in Tanaan, anyway.
Besides, this is besides the point. Gul’dan’s Tainting of the Throne of the Elements is not the root cause of Draenor dying.
Sounds like you just want Blizzard to get rid of characters you don’t like rather than write good story arcs.
This is quite a change. In your discussions about the Lightbound with me, I was the one who questioned how reliable that “Sermon of the High Exarch” was, along with whether Geya’rah is biased or not.
I mean, but we aren’t referring to the “Draenei” here. Because the Draenei were never capable of intersteller, interspacial, or theoretical interdimensional travel. That was and still is the Naaru who gave them that capacity. So, the discussion isnt about the Draenei Race of the MU (and theoretical dying offshoot timelines) being more powerful than the Bronze Dragonflight (or more specifically, the Order Cosmology that birthed them, and likely maintained that “One True Timeline” order). But rather, we’re referring to essentially agents of the Light Cosmology being more powerful than the Bronze Dragonflight … of only Azeroth.
I don’t have a conceptual problem with that.
Nice to see someone else who realizes the Mag’har recruitment scenario wasn’t a simple case of “Mag’har good, Lightbound bad”. I think it would have made a far more compelling story, and makes more sense in the lore, for the Lightbound Draenei to take their approach due to grievances with the Orcs regarding the Iron Horde.
In the scenario, most of the “Lightbound” are flagged as neutral rather than hostile, and one of the basic unit quotes is “The time of Grommash is past. Embrace a new future!” Lightbound might not even be what they call themselves, that’s the Mag’har term for Yrel’'s group. “We dubbed these traitors ‘Lightbound’.” Geya’rah quote.
Looks like there could be some bad blood with the Mag’har over the Iron Horde, especially since it looks like AU Grom wasn’t punished for his crimes. Yrel herself is a former Iron Horde slave who lost her sister to their machinations.
Yeah, we’ve seen your previous opinions on this topic Thad. You bury the Lightbound (because that’s all we know them as for now) and Yrel under excuses whenever someone brings up the obvious. Yrel’s crusade extended far beyond just prior Iron Horde members, and included all native populations of Draenor in that forced unity. While you go pretty far to demonize the AU Mag’har (who, despite their similarities in terms of tech and 1 out of 4 leaders we know of being AU Grom, are not the Iron Horde). You also just have a strong aversion to ANYONE or ANYTHING of Light persuasion being portrayed as anything but benevolent and good.
And we have no idea whether AU Grom was punished or not in those 30 years. The same lack of info you use to invalidate what we do at least know about the Yrel’s group atm, is the same lack of info you’re using to condemn the AU Mag’har. Which is why you tend to just forget that in the one scenario where we actually see the Iron Horde using slaves in all of WoD … there are just as many Orc slaves as Draenei. Which doesn’t make what the Iron Horde did better, but it does show that there were plenty of Orcs that resisted. With the AU Mag’har including members of both groups. As well as 30 years of kids born after the events of WoD. Including Geya’rah.
Could it possibly guide them toward our universe? It’s more a vulnerability but could be a reason they avoided or endured their universe’s destruction.
Oh, I’m certain that if they appear again it will be those visions and the Light Mother that brings them to our universe. Especially if that timeline is destined to vanish like was suggested. A crusade of unity under a single vision of light is pointless if they die with a dead timeline. I would also say that since AU Draenor is doomed, the last group of AU Refugees (of all races) are likely to come with the Lightbound. Which could give a nice little influx of characters to both the Orc and Draenei sides of things once an issues that come with this group are resolved. The issue I have is what they’ll do in service of those visions before that resolution arrives.
The concern I have with them however (and Thad likes to ignore) is this line from the only source of the Yrel’s group we have. “The Light Mother has blessed me with visions. I know that one day the Army of the Light will march across the Great Dark Beyond and bring order to countless worlds.” Which outright states that the ambition isn’t just to unify Draenor under this singular vision of the Light, but countless worlds. And while I’d wager that such an ideology will play nice (for a time) with other Light practitioners of other sects (like you’d find on Azeroth), the thing about ideological extremes (which is what the Light Mother seems to be pushing here) is “unity” is often a very rigid and narrow word. If they show up and are allowed a foothold, it is only a matter of time before they turn against groups like the NE’s and their Elune Worship; or perhaps even the other sects and brands of Light Worshippers. Somehow I doubt that the Horde Light Groups especially will get a pass.
In Warlords of Draenor, the Orcs didn’t join him as planned. You seem to be missing that. You can do the quests, that’s the entire premise of the situation. There’s an entire questline at the Throne of Elements
Yes it was. We know this per the Chronicles.
They are in turmoil because of the Pale.
Aborius says: A dark presence grows in the west. Gordawg, the great earthen fury, has gone missing.
Incineratus says: Without a fury of earth upon the throne, the elemental bonds that hold this world together weaken.
Kalandrios says: The balance has been disrupted. The Elemental Plateau has grown unstable and must be purged.
Kalandrios says: If left imbalanced, the elements will rage across this valley tearing all life asunder.
Incineratus says: Gordawg must be found and returned to the throne.
Aborius says: The fate of the elements rests in your hands.
Location is not only entirely relevant, the fire elemental is never destroyed. That’s a huge part of it.
I actually like Anduin. I just don’t think he should’ve been High King. The title should’ve went to someone more experienced, like Tyrande, Muradin, Genn, Velen, or basically any other Alliance leader. Regardless, I think it would be a waste to villain bat Anduin or kill him off.
He doesn’t have to be killed or villain bat. He can be dethroned and made into the hermit while House of the Nobles takes over to stir things up.
His fans still would have him, but the narrative would finally show that his believes don’t have world-wide support.
And that is coming from someone who cannot stand him.
For the love of God, no. If he becomes a “main villain” then his overexposure will cross critical limits and we will only get stories about Blanduin.
What we need is him getting LESS screentime, and this can only happen if his character is m,ade to be actually IRRELEVANT to the narrative (villains are anything but irrelevant).
It wasn´t either “Mag´har bad, Lightbound good” as you pretend.
Oh wow, I hate everything about this thread. I suppose Varian the warmonger would be a better king? Ugh, this is gross.
I wish Blizz has actually committed to that. It might have made him a more consistent of a character if he hadn’t been the victim of Blizz’s weird noncommittal nature during the Cata+ era.
it’s super gross but this forum has been leaning gross for a bit now since everyone left and now it’s just 15 people and all their alts talking to each other. I really hope 9.1 brings new people into this forum. People who are less cringe.