He was certainly a more interesting character when he was a blatant Horde-knock off than the bland bag of hot air after Cata. As for King? I don’t play humans, so I don’t care.
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If you look back across my posts and comments on the subject, you’ll see I conceded their “join or die” approach was wrong. I didn’t demonize the Mag’har; even if I had, I still did it less than how far other fans have gone demonizing Yrel’s group… like you did prior to our discussions. Everything I cited was a fact confirmed in-game; the deforestation, the subjugation of the Ogres, the Iron Horde, being lead by war criminal AU Grom, Geya’rah’s unreliability… 30 years of kids is still within the lifetime of the surviving Draenei and Iron Horde members - AU Grom was still alive.
I don’t know whether Grom was punished or not. Given the magnitude of AU Grom’s crimes, the fitting punishment for them should’ve been either life-long or execution… neither of which Grom received; if his punishment was life-long, how was he leading the Mag’har? And he obviously wasn’t executed.
I know there were Orc slaves, the Iron Horde can be cruel to their own (slavery as punishment is a thing) and any Orcs who didn’t join. If I wanted to demonize the Mag’har, I’d have blamed them for the deterioration of AU Draenor (rather than saying other causes are more likely theorizing they may be responsible plus more likely suspects than the Lightbound).
Yet, you have repeatedly insinuated that what Yrel is doing is justified in some way. Despite the fact that her Convert or Die tactics have extended far beyond just those members of the prior Iron Horde. And again, 3 out of 4 Mag’har leaders that we know of were not of the Iron Horde. Neither was AU Lantressor. And the AU Mag’har are simply a unified compilation of the Orcish people of AU Draenor. Combining those that were of the Iron Horde, and those that opposed them. And children of both.
That’s the fundamental problem with what we know of Yrel so far. And despite how unreliable you believe Geya’rah to be (who admits that she studied under Draenei tutors growing up before the Lightbound Crusade hit full tilt), the ONLY source of the “Lightbound” perspective we have “The Sermon of the High Exarch” seems to reinforce what she’s told us. So far that is. There is room for more. Its as simple as that.
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I admitted their “join or die” approach was wrong. It wasn’t “Lightbound bad, Mag’har good” as you used to claim because you associate the Lightbound with your ahistorical, prejudiced view of the Christian side of the Crusades and the Conquistadors.
Glad to see that this doesn’t deter you from having strong opinions about human lore regardless
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I’d be fine with Anduin being killed off. As much as i’d love to see it though i would be shocked if it actually happened. My biggest fear is he’ll come out of this entire thing and return to his previous role as “High King” of the entire Alliance as the same annoying character he was previously.
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Stop interjecting it and their leaders into my playthrough and I’ll stop having opinions on it.
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I did because her goal of a peaceful, unified Draenor is a good goal, and every non-Draenei culture there was involved in a violent free-for-all. Should they have just sat back and let, say, the Botani consume AU Draenor? One of the Lightbound - hereafter called “LB” - unit quotes is “The time of Grommash is past. Embrace a new future!” Maybe the Iron Horde still is a factor in the LB’s actions.
The Ogres were being subjugated by the post-Iron Horde Mag’har; for all the problems of their “join or die” policy, the LB were giving the Ogres a better deal than being forced into ghettos/prison camps (Mag’har and Ogres had a cycle of revenge going).
Why did the Mag’har leaders accept AU Grom into their ranks after everything he did? Geya’rah’s studying under Draenei tutors just means they taught her to read and write, and it still doesn’t explain why none of the Mag’har acknowledge the Iron Horde. Etrigg is aware we fought the Iron Horde on WoD… but he shows no negative reaction upon seeing AU Grom again despite everything he did.
Geya’rah’s omission of the Iron Horde and her genocidal hatred of all Draenei cast doubt onto her, and you seem to be flip-flopping about the reliability of the “Sermon of the High Exarch”. Geya’rah says “they became fanatical”, that sermon says “(the LB) are trying to unify Draenor under one path”; saying “the latter reinforces the former” relies on assuming the former is correct.
In light of this, villain-batting prominent Light-users would be a bad idea if this is how they go about it. Your scenario of “Billy Batson with wisdom of Solomon powers” sounds viable, but it sounds like what Blizzard is doing is villain-batting a character for a “muh fanaticism” story arc and sweeping aside any lore that shows that’s not the case.
It also begs the question “what does the Light Mother want”? Since Yrel answers to her apparently. Assuming this Light Mother is AU Xe’ra, that begs the question what does AU Xe’ra want and why does she want it? Apart from a unified Draenor and ordered cosmos - hardly bad goals themselves - we don’t know (though certain fans are quick to assume the worst). It find it particularly stupid when those fans say the Light is as bad as the Legion or the Void - the Legion wanted to destroy the universe and glut themselves on power, the Void wants to unmake the rest of the cosmos so only Void remains, far worse than even the “rule everything” worst case scenario with the Light.
Oh, well, I guess if YOU don’t care, that’s all that matters! 
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Wrong, the one associating the whole freaking concept of “muh Light” with irl Christian concepts is YOU dude. That´s why the idea of the Light being portrayed as just another cosmological entity with no moral sides (A.K.A. it functions for both good and bad) drives you to the border of a crisis of faith.
And as much as for some of you it´s painful to aknowledge, you WILL have to aknowledge the Christian historically speaking church is NO parangon of morality -some of the worst things seen in Earth happened thanks to bad people using the Christian faith as an excuse for their debauchery. The Conquistadors used the Christian church as another excuse to systemathically destroy the culture of people living in a territory them Conquistadors were too invested in expropiating and invading, no more and no less-.
I myself as a latin american woman have been raised following Christian dogma, but this doesn´t mean I blind myself to the historical evidence pointing out the bad actions taken by people using it as a shield to justify themselves, period.
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That’s a surprise.
you can’t reason with Thadeus about Christianity because they literally have the stance “Catholicism never did anything bad ever” and will give you xenophobic takes on how Catholics had a moral obligation to wipe out heretics. That’s why their Y’rel thread got nuked.
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I never saw that first GD Yrel thread? Was it really that bad?
You implying here anything about “real christians” here? Cause that´s a can of worms I´m pretty sure you don´t want to open.
I mean good ol´ Francisco has aknowledged the history of the Catolic chuch has had it´s very dark spots… and last time I saw this didn´t disqualify him of his Pope status -as a matter of fact the guy is great PRECISELY because he´s aware of the stuff-.
And then me /sees the actual Pope aknowledging some of those very questionable actions undertaken by the Christian church of old… but somehow the “bad” christian is myself /rofl
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Nope just said I’m surprised.
I want this in game for both the Draenei and Night Elves ASAP.
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Honestly, what scares me about the Lightbound dogma … is that the NEs would be a target. Maybe not the first one. But if the goal is one of unity under a single vision of the Light, the NE’s and their Elune Worship would conceptually be on the table. As would less traditional forms of Light reverence. The Sunwalkers through An’she. The Prelates through the Loa. Even the BE Blood Knights (who, when not being absorbed by Human and Draenei stories, come off as fairly agnostic when the Light is concerned) would like not be allowed to fester as sources of disunity. It be an interesting story to be certain, but Blizz would have to actually commit to it.
EDIT: And know how to handle the nuance between a potential Lightforged vs Lightbound conflict.
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Error, Error, you expect nuance in Storywriting from this company? Don´t fool yourself, Droite!
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Sigh, I know lol! I get that we are talking about a company who’s interpretation of “morally grey” is one side being PITCH BLACK and the other PRESTINE WHITE. So when the two extremes clash … I guess they make grey? If they were paint? But … one can dream I suppose. There are really interesting stories to be told with the Spectrums of the Light Cosmology. Especially with some of the Lightbound stuff.
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Which is why I want a Elunite Inquisition modeled after the three priestess fight in Legion. Calling the moon-goddess a stupid wind-chime? That’s Heresy!
spams moonfire
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