You haven’t engaged with the suggestion from multiple people that the level range (11-19) presents a similar power imbalance between a regular 19 rogue and a twink. How is a level 11 getting ROFLstomped by a moderately geared 19 different than that same 19 playing against a twink?
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You could label a million things in Vanilla a ‘mistake’. Things that have been ‘fixed’ over the years. And there’s a game called BfA that is the culmination of those changes. But this is Classic, a faithful recreation of Vanilla. Players need to adapt to the game, not the other way around.
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I did. My main character was Chardith on Hellscream in the guild called Legitimate Strategy. When I originally played vanilla it was first on a Forsaken Warlock named Wegadas and I got him to level 24 and got bored of the grinding/questing running here and there and all over.
I then leveled my rogue who ended up becoming my main who I took to 60, I personally played a lot of pvp when it first came out on not only a rogue, but a hunter and a mage. I did not do a single quest from level 26 and on and my preferred method of leveling was PVP because it was incredibly fun and there was no extreme gate such as high level raid enchantments that stopped me from enjoying it as a method of leveling my character.
Months later the problem of twinking slowly started gaining more traction and soon on every character (outside of my hunter who I kept at level 29, who had NO enchantments) it was difficult to kill the people who had higher level enchantments that weren’t regularly obtainable at those levels.
I’m not sure what you mean in terms of zero character advancement, because there was. You turned in marks and got xp as well as reputation. The reputation also afforded you very good accessories and things of that like which also made pvping more fun.
I was definitely competitive without high level enchantments, but once twinking became an issue I was forced to follow suit and it was never the same experience. I became the person that was 2-3 shotting people who weren’t as geared and slowly watched as the amount of people that engaged in pvp in lower brackets slowly trickled down.
You can say that it was because people were leveling out of those brackets, and that is a completely agreeable point. You can say that it was because people felt that without the same advantages, getting steam rolled was not fun and thus they refrained from extensive pvp.
Honestly the gear part is fine its the crazy enchants that don’t belong but lets be fair vanilla pvp in a whole is broken as F. They didn’t really make the game with pvp in mind, its just there and people liked it so they did it. I did too, i played a warrior i jumped on the hype train but Vanilla PvP is so broke you can’t fix it.
Honestly I won’t touch Vanilla PvP outside of AV because I wanna experience the old AV again just a couple times before everyone decides to mount past each other again.
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Sorry I meant to address what you said earlier in regards to that.
It is entirely different because those people can still level up and then become competitive against the people who are level 19. Do the level 19’s have an advantage over the level 11’s? Obviously yes. Is it an unfair advantage? No.
Why is it not unfair? Because the level 11’s can become level 12, and 13, and 14, and ultimately level 19 and be on the same playing field.
Now lets address the same question you pose with twinking factored in.
Do level 19 twinks have an advantage over level 11 non-twinks (and all non-twinks for that matter)? Yes.
Is it an unfair advantage? Yes.
Why is it unfair? Because those level 11’s (and any non-twink) do not have access to raid level enchantments that the level 19’s do.
Happy? I answered your question and provided valid logical counterpoints to your argument. I am more than willing to debate further if you can put forth another question for me ![:slight_smile:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
But anybody can access those end game enchants
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bleh ![:face_vomiting:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/face_vomiting.png?v=6" ":face_vomiting:")
Who cares, it’s never gonna happen anyways.
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Except for the people who are just leveling and trying to have fun in a low level bracket. Low level brackets are fun when the server is new but once twinks get invovled they kill all the full. Their allies identify them and pocket heal them and they just mop the floor with the enemy team and you never stood a chance.
“End game enchants” “low level pvp”… One of these is not like the other!
To be fair this is a completely valid point.
However just because anyone can access them doesn’t mean they have the means to do so. The only people who will have access to them primarily are those who will have gotten to level 60. A new player starting the game fresh trying to pvp in the 10-19, or 20-29 bracket would not be able to make the money required to afford those enchantments without an incredible amount of time invested. Logically it is much easier to make money at higher levels due to higher level gathering professions and the materials which will be in much higher demand.
Edit: I will just say this here because I feel it needs to be said. If we remedy an issue in a way that STILL allows for twinks to have fun twinking, and still allows people who are leveling to engage in pvp casually (as I would argue twinking would be considered a more hardcore aspect of low level pvping) then it would potentially pave the way for better things.
Just because it’s going to be Classic doesn’t mean everything has to be the same. I acknowledge that it likely WILL be the same regardless of what I say and that is completely fine, I have ZERO issues with that. My whole proposition is in making a part of the game more enjoyable for the average casual player while still maintaining the benefit of being able to twink.
Right but as with anything, video game or otherwise, you get out what you out in. Someone who has multiple 60s and thousands of gold put more into the game than someone who’s main is in the 20s. It makes sense that the person who’s put weeks of /played time will have more resources in the game and have an advantage. It’s not a purely skill based game like a first person shooter. Skill matters, but so does time put in.
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I agree with everything you say, I am not saying that those people should not still have their advantages that they have earned. I am merely advocating for the ability for people who want to level via pvp, or a mix of pvp and questing or grinding mobs be afforded the luxury of doing so.
I am not saying that my idea is right and that it SHOULD be done, but I am providing points as to why it would be a good thing logically. I get that it likely will not change but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t share an opinion on an idea I have.
If it gets bashed and has a bad reception, that’s fine! The majority of people on here have been nothing but toxic and inflammatory and added nothing constructive like you and some few other people have. This is a problem in and of itself.
People don’t like change, that’s fine, but once again that doesn’t mean that blizzard can’t make slight adjustments that may or may not be a benefit to the environment in the long run. Also no, this does not mean or =/= BFA.
BFA is a garbage game and anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves and I would wager EVERYONE in this forum agrees with that statement in some way or another. However that is another issue in and of itself and I don’t care to discuss it since I tried it, didn’t like it, and only played for the initial month and never subbed again.
What time period and frame are you talking about? Was this actual Vanilla or TBC or both or later?
“Dude if you enjoy twinking characters in low lvl brackets sorry, you cant anymore, the snowflakes have spoken, you can only fight other twinks which totally defeats the purpose of you twinking in the first place”
Classic is not a balanced pvp game. The pvp is fast and unforgiving. Clothies can still get one shot even when theyre bis geared at 60. So this topic is moot. Blizzard wont change it no matter how many people cry out for it.
My friends and i had a blast playing low lvl bgs in classic. Its like going against an alpha class (swg jedi ). We would tey to team up on a twink rogue and get demolished or laugh running away from him. Its not serious, its not game breaking, take it for what it is, a low lvl bg.
Is your ego insulted when one kills you? Are you thinking how is this fair? How can gear beat my skill? I dont get why you guys are upset about it. In the end its all a game, and i will stick to my previous comment. If it upsets you and youre not having fun, dont que for the bg, this game is meant to have fun in or whats the point. Give twinking a try if you start running into twinks to much if low lvl bgs are your thing anyways.
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In regards to everything I said? This was from launch in late 2004 and the events I am referring to specifically were in regards to vanilla WoW
So it was indeed across the vanilla era, ok.
Next questions…
Was your server high population or medium or low?
Was there a population imbalance on that server? IF so was is a PVE server?
One thing I’ll say is people can see your forum history. So for someone with 1 day on the forum, 1 topic created, <250 total posts read, and you’re advocating for something that may be unpopular, people are going to accuse you of trolling. Because it looks like trolling and there’s lots of trolls here. So regardless of your intent people are going to dismiss you instantly for that. Having an unpopular opinion is going to magnify the bashing that comes your way.
I’m not entirely sure the relevance of these questions to my proposition but I will indulge you as I’m sure you have some sort of purpose.
IIRC, Hellscream (PvE) and Hyjal (PvP) were high population servers (I played on Hyjal later in the game). This fluxuated heavily however as with launch and the months following, there were many servers being opened and free realm transfers being offered left right and center from high pop servers to low/new servers, but as stated at launch Hellscream was a high population server.
In regards to population imbalance (regarding faction) that I cannot comment on as I do not recall such information. I do know that Alliance (Keepers of the Faith) cleared Naxxramus before our Horde top guild could but I suppose this is not relevant to your required information.
I mean I agree and acknowledge that. I have not used WoW forums since Vanilla, of which I was a regular. However this is my original account from back then.
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I felt the same way about low level BGs until I found out just how much fun it was decking them out.
If you can’t beat 'em, twink 'em. It really works, guys!
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Raid level enchants were mainly for survivability something like 450 hp advantage over others. Want to know what was more OP than enchants? Trinkets and pvp reward items. The imbalance is inevitable in pvp especially in low level pvp. Getting rid of twinks from that group isn’t going to change anything. And it is defiantly not going to create more incentive for people to pvp at lower levels. Think of it this way. If I’m taking a break from PvE to pvp how long is that break going to be? Long enough to catch up and be competitive with the best? No. So your want of average Joe dirt to pvp more without twinks won’t happen, people leveling alts for the most part won’t care either. The only thing that it will create is a lower set of twinks without enchants? But still faceroll people cuz they have all blue gear. The disparity is there and always will be there, your solution does nothing.
I can’t wait to have a twink (At some point)