The reason I asked is simply because they do make a difference in regard to how fast BG Q’s will pop.
PVE servers with a faction imbalance suffer the most because there is a much smaller portion of the population on average that enjoys participating in PVP.
I do not think that it was a result of “twink gear” that drove the people out, it was likely a combination of things that slowed the pace of full BG rosters in that bracket.
Things that you your self mentioned are likely at play, in addition to the situation of the server you selected.
PVE server = lower PVP population by default.
As time progresses in a game the number of people at the lower levels decreases because they want to experience more of the game on that character or other characters.
Faction imbalance can also impact your Q times.
A combination of these forces are most likely the fault of your situation where people kinda dried up and left.
Also consider that some people may have server transferred away to other realms. This became popular in late Vanilla, IMO it was a mistake and harmed a lot of servers.
(Aureleon here)
I agree with everything you said, and while I do not think that twinking was a sole reason for the decline, I do think it was a contributor (not a major one) to it, as well as the things you, I, and others have pointed out. That being said I do think it was potentially a reason for why people stopped becoming interested in pvp as a general activity due to having to invest large amounts of time and gold just to compete in a bracket without getting facerolled.
My entire intentions for starting the thread were to try and perhaps generate some ideas as a remedy or possible solution, (with zero expectations of it being implemented) with my main thoughts being that it would probably be impossible to implement in a way that would please everyone, as well as taking into consideration that it might not be something anyone wants to begin with.
I am happy to have reached a point where I can have a conversation with someone about this in a constructive manner at the very least.
Always trying to do so, no matter who it is… Even if I suspect the person is a troll…
I don’t think you’re trolling or I would have asked very different questions.
Don’t know how it would be possible to “Fix” the low level PVP brackets so that everyone would enjoy them, because some people are just impossible to please at almost any level; not just game play.
With that in mind, was it specifically the cold hard gold costs that really put the pinch on you personally?
I participated in the 39 bracket and had quite a good time with just a few dungeon and quest items and felt competitive… I did not make believe that I was as geared as others, yet at the same time I had a really good time with it and often won matches, some of them were very long fought too.
I do not have enough experience in the 19 / 29 brackets to comment, but perhaps the lack of class skills for certain classes is the root cause because the 39’s felt almost like mini 60’s that had a much slower pace of play, even the super geared guys were far less powerful in regard to the bracket than any lightly geared 60.
The volatility of the PVP @ 60 was crazy fun, but I can see how that would turn some people off… The low level PVP on the other hand, even the short experience I had in the 19 / 29 and obviously 39+, was far slower in pace.
Is there a remedy? I doubt it because the players in the BG forums of modern WoW have been endlessly complaining about various things forever… Even after they removed the “twinks” from the low level brackets the players will still unhappy because now that the twinks were gone it turned into X-class is over powered or Y-class is terrible plz buff now.
Maybe it was always a balance issue in 19 / 29 and far less a “twink” issue??
I genuinely don’t know, but these are only my thoughts on it.
as much as i hated fighting twinks back in those days, they were still part of the game and was an option to create one. even if i died facing one often, i still found myself enjoying the BG and just focusing on other targets instead. Even so, i never stayed at lvl 19 or lvl 49 just to do BG’s. it would be my one toon that i worked on and eventually i would hit 60 to fight other matched players. I personally never found Twinks to be that big of a problem. shrug
For my own humor I am going to assume this was in jest towards the fact my former main is actually a Troll (Race)
To be honest neither do I, hence why I proposed the above ideas, and you’re definitely right in regards to pleasing people.
The gold costs and etc never bothered me because I experienced BG’s as they came out and played them excessively. I reached level 60 quite quickly since I pvp’d for hours in every bracket (except 40-49 and 50-59) and already had gained a moderate amount of reputation to gain access to some good pvp gear to level with. It is only afterwards when I focused on leveling some alts that I noticed there were some incredibly powerful characters in the same BG’s as I was in.
Thus, I twinked out my own characters in the 10-19, 20-29 and 30-39 brackets as a result because I wanted to be competitive but I never enjoyed killing people that were poorly geared as it was too easy and not very interactive to say the least. I usually only died when I was already low after fighting multiple opponents, give that was obviously not always the case.
Right, for the most part you could still enjoy pvp largely due to the fact of how the game revolved extremely around weapon damage/dps as opposed to stats like Str, Agi, etc.
Don’t get me wrong, they still mattered, but depending on the class you were playing you might have had an easier time anyway simply because of said class being strong in a given bracket (Hunters were always dominant in every bracket or performed at a moderate level for example) but overall I would say that by the time you hit 39 you would have access to most of the abilities you would have at 60 save for a few.
I would agree with you there for sure. I never had any issues in pvp at 60 until Alliance side cleared Naxxramas. They were nigh unstoppable in pvp but I didn’t treat it in the manner that I treated twinking, or at least didn’t view it the same way in regards to the fact that the gear was obtainable, albeit through a much more rigorous and time consuming process.
To be honest I don’t see there being a plausible remedy that would keep everyone happy. It is quite clear that the idea of limiting twink interactions is quite deeply opposed as I have found out from the creation of this thread. In TBC they made it so you gained XP in battlegrounds without turning in marks of any sort, thus eliminating twinking on a large scale. I think you could still avoid it if you left the bg’s before they finished but I could be wrong about that as I did not play TBC on nearly the same level as I did Vanilla.
I would have to agree on your speculation that it was always a balance issue in general. Rogues in the 10-19 bracket dominated because of having 30% crit on backstab via 8 points in the combat tree so I’m sure you can see why they were oppressive. Without elaborating on my experience of every bracket and every class I can safely reiterate that it was a balancing issue from the start, and I admit that just because twinking was never intended doesn’t mean that I think it shouldn’t still be in classic, hence again the creation of this thread.
As stated previously I appreciate your time and effort to discuss the topic at hand and your thoughts have been a good source with which for me to actually reflect and think more upon the idea itself. It might not have gone anywhere and likely wont have any effect on what classic will be but again, public forums like this are generally a place you can go to share ideas and discuss them in (hopefully) a civil manner but unfortunately this is the internet and it does bring out the worst in people (myself included).
Just always try to remember that and keep your civility intact and it makes everything better. Sure the tone of a conversation can come across as harsh to some people but if that was never the intent you can always correct that later if they read it wrong.
lol what a troll of a post, and the op’s replies to others just cracks me up. Nothing wrong with twinking dude, you plan on being low level forever? No? Then s t "ef "u about twinks, jeez. Btw how carebear of blizz not allowing the s t “ef” u to be written, really…really…
I don’t know about anyone else, but twinking wasn’t that much of a problem until TBC and WotLK when actually getting the enchants became much cheaper. I did low level pvp all the time not twinking but getting gear prior and did really well because actual twinks were fairly rare.
If twinking is a problem, then play the AH until you can twink yourself out every bracket. If you don’t want to put the work or effort in and pvp in whites and greys, of course you are going to get stomped.
Nah dude you are wrong. A twink is like a football team that has been going to the gym and working out. A non twink is like you and your chubby friends going up against said football team with no work put into it. Dont expect it to have a chance if you havent put in the time to get twinked yourself.
Hmmm. I think this possibly just varied depending on the server perhaps? On my server there were one or two MAIN pvp guilds (who pushed for HW/GM rank14’s) and then a few twink guilds on either side, or the main pvp guilds had twink alts.
I do recall facing a premade of twinks on average of at least 1 out of every 3 games usually. Not always, sometimes you would just get a few twinks themselves and not an entire premade but those are just my experiences. Everyone will vary for sure!
oh, i see, you think its fun to roflstomp people that you massively outgear
thats like stepping on an ant
though, admittedly, this happens some months after naxx comes out and people get decked out in naxx gear while new 60s are just in dungeon blues and quest gear, though most 60s won’t be new by that point and plenty of people should have plenty of BWL gear by then
having said that and read the post more thoroughly, I want to know how many people think that that teaming up against a twink is fun compared to teaming up against a team of non-twinks as non-twinks, though I’m not gonna get an accurate answer about that here
and, as I’ve said before, you can’t really get BGs without huge gear and/or level differences unless you either have x-realm BGs or split the BGs into too many level brackets(and more) which would be a problem at non-high lvls due to the population
yet today, new players deal with a whole BG of Twink like established players wearing heirlooms. I hear no call for sending off heirloom players to a seperate BG.
BG’s were ruined when they removed Twinks and allowed leveling.
BG=battle ground, not leveling ground, not let’s be fair ground.
No one tells PVE raiders not to get the best gear to take down a boss, that raiding should be based on skills, not gear.
What we had happen in BG’s was a bunch of whining PvE players come up with one excuse after another for why they didn’t pvp and every time Blizz catered to those complaints, hoping PvE players would then engage in PvP, PvE players came up with another reason to avoid PvP and in the process ruined Wpvp and BG’s.
Not, that will be a non-twink player that was practicing and developing their skills. A twink it’s more like a football player who is to lazy to make workout at the gym, and instead of that he use steroids.
Ya know, honestly, I’m tired of this nonsense. You automatically assume that if your BG has twinks, the BG is shot. That’s beyond daft. Load up a pserver and go pvp vs twinks & you’ll see that isn’t the case. Whiney entitled brats like you who sit on the forums complaining constantly & never being satisfied with any outcome are a huge reason why WoW went down the tube. It’s Vanilla WoW, not Vanilla WoW modified to pander to whiney entitled brats. You don’t even think before you rant nonsense. For example:
“No one is talking about max level where you have access to the same tools/benefits.”
~~~ all people in low level BGS have access to the same tools/benefits as twinks, go out and earn them like the real world ~~~
Here’s the simple fix for people like you:
Blizzard creates realms with twinking
Blizzard has realms without twinking
the same fix applies to tokens & anything else people are going to whine about. literally, exile these people to their own islands and let them whine on their realm’s forums into oblivion.
I dont twink, but i dont think its up to me or you to decide if people should be able to twink or not. As you may recall in my previous post, i gave an example of me on the recieving end of a twink, yet still found enjoyment from the game, because this is a game to me. You wont always be the one on top friend, and thats okay.
We used to have a saying on my server, “tich is not for you”. I think that may apply here to you, if you dont like the things that were in classic…”classic is not for you”.
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