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27

In the years I’ve been posting here, and have had MVP, MS>OS has always been a player made term, and not enforceable by GM staff.

This is from the EU, but the message was also the same here too.

MS>OS is an extremely vague and fluid concept. For example someone who mains a Protection Warrior might join a raid as Arms because all the tank spots are full. While Protection is technically their MS, they are in the raid as Arms, which causes other players to believe that Arms is the MS of that Warrior. Is that Warrior, or the Master Looter, then in the wrong if they receive a tank trinket?

Likewise, what about players who change specs mid-raid (such as a DPS switching to Healer) to allow the raid to continue if the group can’t backfill people who have left, where do these players fit in with regards to MS>OS?

Let’s then say that the raid leader fails to update their LFG listing to reflect the change. The change doesn’t get explained to the DPS who subsequently join, causing them to feel that something has been ninja’ed when the now-Healer is given a DPS item. Is anyone actually in the wrong here?

These are just some examples of the ambiguity MS>OS can fall into.

Generally, the Master Looter system is intended to be used in groups of people you trust. By joining a PuG raid with Master Looter set, you join knowing that the Master Looter has the power to assign the loot. If you don’t seek precise clarification, in chat, on how the loot will be allocated, our Game Masters cannot then assist you on the basis of unspoken assumptions when so many grey areas are in play.

GM staff follow the same policy. If you’re getting a different answer between tickets, it’s possible that policy changed between tickets.

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29

Not in this case they don’t. Please stop trying to push false information in the CS forums.

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32

Chances are the person would have the item removed, and possibly face a suspension, but GM staff will not redistribute the loot. Sorry for the confusion.

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In WoW Classic and Wrath Classic there are multiple loot methods that allow you to manage loot directly. For this reason, Customer Support will not redistribute loot in the event of a dispute between players. Scamming other players is a violation of our World of Warcraft game policies. We will investigate any reports of scamming that we receive and take the appropriate action, removing gains and penalizing those who violate this policy as needed. Items and gold will not be redistributed in these cases.

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36

As others have said, this is not any kind of clarification. In fact, in your very next post:

You added the highest roll wins assumption. You’ve already moved the goalposts. But even here, this means nothing. What kind of roll? You roll 1-100, I roll 101-1000, do I win? You didn’t specify.

What is MS? OS? Even beyond the fact that those acronyms can mean many other things, let’s assume it does mean Main Spec and Off Spec. (See how many assumptions are being made? Blizzard doesn’t get into that crap.) What’s your main spec? The one you’re currently performing, or the one that you switched to in order to help the raid succeed? Did everyone declare what their Main Spec is before the run started?

OK, let’s assume everyone clarified their main spec before the raid. When a piece of loot drops, how do you know which spec it goes to? Gear is not spec-specific. Even during BC when loot was separated into spell damage and spell healing, those are simply secondary stats. The main stats (Stam/Int) still can make it an upgrade for many specs.

Kilgorth, I would encourage you to open a ticket. They will investigate as a scam and take appropriate actions. It’s very likely that they will find they can do nothing, but I think this quoted part is important. A Master Looter who distributes loot one way for most of the run, then changes it at the end might have a slightly better chance of being punished for a scam. Likewise, if the ML distributed loot one way and you were in line to win it, there’s a slight possibility they could see that.

I want to be clear with the expectations: it’s highly unlikely that they can do anything, and even less likely that you would get the item. But I don’t think the chances are zero. Worst they can say is no. Just report it, and move on with your gaming.

As you have been told many times by Blue posters, this is exceedingly rare, and this one time, loot rules were clearly stated beyond the dumb “MS>OS”. Without knowing specifics, no one can confirm nor deny your stupid claims, but stop pushing this false narrative around here. You’re going to find yourself without posting privileges.

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37

Blizzard doesn’t have an escalation policy. It does have an appeal policy.

An appeal gets routed to a different GM, not a different level of GM. The new GM reviews the original GM’s decision based upon current policy, known info about the possible offense, and evolving policy guidance from the Dev team regarding new types of issues.

You may keep appealing until told to stop appealing. Appeals past that point become GM harassment.

Everyone works for someone but if an organization is set up for peer review of decisions made by the workers, higher levels within the organization won’t overturn those decisions. Their job is to ensure that the people doing the actual work have access to current policy information.

At no point, does a GM hierarchy get involved in decisions. There is effectively no higher level GM to escalate to.

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38

Just to clarify this, there are specialists where certain, complex issues get routed to. These specialists may have different “powers” than a normal GM, but they are not there to overrule other GM’s decisions. They are there to work on complex issues, not to listen to players who got told no.

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39

You were told this was incorrect yesterday, if i recall correctly.

This is also incorrect. You dont go shopping for a GM until you get the one you want. They have policies to follow just like you do each amd every day at work or school.

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40

If that happened it was because they had more in-depth loot rules than MS>OS.

I used to participate in alt runs with some other guilds on Bloodhoof. One of the guilds used “lowest roll wins” because their guild leader always rolled a low number. Another run was roll 1-100 and the one closest to 75 without going over won. Someone coming into the raid late and not knowing the loot rules could roll the highest number and be upset because they didn’t get the item. That is why it is important to make sure everyone in the group knows what the loot rules are. Unless you specifically define what you mean by MS and OS, MS>OS is too vague to enforce. As well, you need to define how rolls will work (highest/lowest wins, closest to 75 without going over, etc.)

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41

Just to emphasize this, this is because Master Looter was designed for guild with their own method of distributing loot. Many guilds do point systems based on participation and attendance. Some people do lowest roll, like Ruffle said. I encountered that during VoA runs late in the expansion (and it was actually a fun time). In Ulduar, it’s important for guilds to have Master Looter for the legendary splinters.

Master Looter is not meant for random pugs to use. If you want highest roll to win, literally every other Blizzard-provided system does that.

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Can confirm. I was in that guild. Guild name was a synonym for dying. Guild leader was synonym for battle.