Win what argument? I’m agreeing with you. The only thing I disagree with is whether the choice of a single Covenant ability out of four possibilities is necessary to make the system feel consequential.
Are you just trying to pick a fight or something? Sheesh.
So you want accessibility over substance. There are no consequences, only conveniences. There are no challenges, only checkpoints.
“Join a covenant now or you don’t get to play”. “The covenant you joined has restrictions that will prevent you from doing most of the content you like. You have no choice now.” Those are the consequences. “You can play a fraction of the game you used to play because of the restrictions you were forced to accept.”
And don’t give me that “nobody is forced” nonsense. You choose a covenant and you will be restricted to it. Or else.
Go ahead and try to make your “impactful” choices sound like anything but “or else”. You can’t, and you know you can’t.
LOL. Keep saying that. Player agency is when people get to make meaningful choices about what they want to do, not when they are forced to lock themselves into a track that keeps them from doing much of what they like to do in the game.
Nobody asked to be forced to make the “least worst” choice from the four we will be presented with. Nobody wanted to be told by a game system that they can’t raid, or do m+, or pvp.
The idea that people are demanding penalties and punishment, maybe if you practice saying that you’ll sound like you believe it. But I really doubt it.
You lie a lot, and badly. The idea that the sole purpose of a videogame should be to create arbitrary situations where as many people as possible are prevented from having fun is laughable. The “great consequences” you offer boil down to “play this way or else”. There is no player fun to be found in that choice.
if you’re as casual as i am it doesn’t matter what your ability is. we can join whichever one we think is cool. that’s what i’m gonna do on all my guys.
I mean if you want more loot you can make multiple characters in FF14. It’s comparable, FF14 just give you more opportunity on one character.
That sounds really good but that doesn’t make any sense.
Acessibility can exist with other parts of the game being a challenge.
That’s like the whole concept of raids having 4 difficulties.
Consequences can exist while not making it inconvenient to only play 1 character.
kyrian is the one with uther right? debating if just my dwarf pally will join it (ofc he is XD) of if i should join on my tauren pally though. do you know if you can use other convenants mogs yet or not ever?
the rpg aspect is not the same as game play. i think you guys are talking about a game play choice which i support. but not to ruin the rpg aspect of it. i think we’ve sorted it out now.
I mean he’s trying to use one liner and jedi mind tricks together. I’m not even sure what is his point.
The covenant class abilities are all mostly the same, a ranged CD that does damage. Just choose the covenant with the sickest armor sets, like Necrolords for DK and warlock. I’m looking forward to bone wings and the sick green crystal.
that’s the plan! i have 1 dk and 2 warlocks. 
Or else what?
Maybe stop being so cynical and thin-skinned and perhaps it’ll dawn on you that making a choice that matters is what players really want.
As in making a choice that has consequences. If there are no consequences when making a decision than it’s irrelevant to begin with.
I never said anything about ‘play this way or else’. All I said was that players want to make decisions that matter.
The rest of that lunacy is all in your own head.
necro is BiS for our classes if we’re just going by coolness factor. XD
I do find the insinuation that people who don’t like the Covenants locking us in to one ability would kill D&D to be especially funny though.
Guess I missed that in the last ~25 years I spent playing D&D. If only they knew how dangerous I was they’d have never let me sit at the table!
If I would go purely for aesthetic and my own choice for my dk, Ardenwald would mine. Because that’s where the loas are.
I tried to be a game master, I was so sadic it made one my player tore his character sheet down and rage quit xd
makes sense cuz you’re a troll dk. i hope they fix it so you can choose what you want.
From what I’ve read from other people - having a flexible system would still involve consequences. They would just be restricted to the content level; but then the amount of agency/choices players would have would be increased.
So increased player agency with consequences still in effect.
Having the ability to make more choices would make each of those that much more impactful on a groups game.
make it hard to change the convenant but easy to switch around abilities. that would make me happy.
How fun would DnD be if you could simply change your character class before every battle because you were at a disadvantage?
You probably don’t want to hear about multi-classing.
The idea that fits this best is to make all the abilities available to all the covenants, but have them all “reskinned” to fit the aesthetic theme of each covenant.