Indeed. And limiting people’s choices to “play this way or quit”, well, how much more important to you is the purity of the design concept over players wanting to play?
The idea that people should be chomping at the bit to get strict limitations and penalties out of their entertainment is unrealistic. But realism has nothing to do with your argument.
Sure. “Play this way or else” is the ultimate impactful consequence. Lots of people will agree that given that choice they’ll be glad to find a game that’s about things like “playing” and “fun”, rather than playing for the sole purpose of knowing your game is more perfect in design than games that are more fun.
Most games are designed to be fun. Everything you describe goes against fun.
So you’re definition of meaningful choice is only per character. So as long as one of my character fit your definition you’re fine with it xd But you also say that since I put more time into my alts it’s fine? Why can’t I just put more time onto my main? What’s the difference?
Aren’t race and faction meaningful choice? Why is a reputation basicly being more meaningful than race or faction?
Back in the days factions were more meaningful choice than covenants will ever be you could only create Horde or Alliance.
IF they want to make it back to that, make it like that again. I don,t want filthy alliances playing with me on their alts. And they should remove the way to transfers from the shop. No you don’t get an escape key.
But with time people have found out that it was pretty meaningless, like people will find covenants pretty meaningless when they understand what they are. Just another small reputation.
Our choices as RP players can still matter without having to impose these kinds of restrictions on others.
The only way it matters is specifically if we want others to play the game how we want to play it - even though it doesn’t actually impact our actual gameplay in any way.
i get what you’re saying. i fully expect they’ll change it to appease the min/maxers eventually. but it’s important to me that the side that understands WHY blizz wants the choice to matter also posts. you know?
Pretty much. Although I’d clarify that people just want to swap the abilities around. If people have been asking to bounce around the Covenants, I haven’t seen it.
And keep it specific - it’s not that people don’t want “choices” in general to matter. It’s that they don’t want this particular choice to matter in a very specific way.
Making a choice is not ‘play this way or quit’. It simply implies that there are consequences to the things that you choose, like any class based game.
People want to make choices that matter. That’s the crux of ‘Player Agency’. What the OP is describing is ‘Player Accessibility’; being able to erase perceived mistakes over and over against with little consequence.
You have a paper thin tolerance for anything challenging.
Most games have choices that have great consequences. ‘Choose Your Own Adventure’ series of books and scenarios are testament to that. If it wasn’t for consequences the concept of RPG’s wouldn’t exist at all.
okay i don’t give a crap about the ABILITIES. i only care about switching the convenant. the convenant itself is what i am arguing about. people have been talking about aldor/scryers which you did have to completely redo the rep if you wanted to change it. i have no idea what the necro ability even is but i am gonna join them because it is the coolest one imo on my warlock.
edit: reskin all the stupid abilities so they’re all the same. and keep the rpg aspect an rpg aspect.
Yea so abilities don’t really matter for why not just remove them or make them available for everyone. You’ll never see the difference. Lock people cosmetic wise into covenants if you want. That’s the contentious point it’s power.
Yes like talents. We don’t need abilities to be in borrowed power systems.
It’s different but comparable to raiding that has weekly lockout, m+ weekly box, pvp weekly box.
But you can earn different class gear on your class, so you can gear other classes without playing them if you want.
At the same time, you can only get “end game” gear once a week for one class in FFXIV.
So you don’t exactly have the option of gearing up every class to end game very easily.
So while not the same, its definitely still a big choice that has to be made each tier.
I understand, I feel you didn’t understand that people only cared for power.
I’m fine with choice being basicly story based and not feeling like it’s locking powers
.
I would even be fine if choosing a covenant would mean you would be at war with others and could assault their base and that pretty much wpvp would be based around them. I actually had an idea that looked like it when I made my guess for the next expansion.
i think the choice to join a convenant should be hard to change. i do not think BiS abilities should be locked behind it. make them all same if you have to.
I can do all of that on all of my classes in WoW and have the same shot at loot.
In FFXIV I can only get gear for one class a week per boss. And while you can earn different class gear, you can’t need for anything you aren’t currently playing in that scenario.