It causes classes and features to be watered down. Many players feel they MUST constantly switch talents to be optimal. If Blizzard enforced the RPG elements that used to be present in WoW which is an MMORPG players would not get that freedom. Choices come with trade-offs. This is typical in any MMORPG, and even WoW of the past. Plenty of successful MMORPGs exist that have these elements. I want some uniqueness back to each player. It is all good to try to minimize weaknesses. That is what good players do. The issue I have is when there are no weaknesses in players because they can just willy nilly switch to whatever whenever they need. What is next? Allowing people to just swap classes with equal gear as well? That is where this game appears to be heading in the name of allowing people to have 0 weaknesses. The last statement is an exaggeration but it feels like that would make many players happy too.
Well I don’t feel like it waters things down - I think the restrictions actually water things down. That’s likely because I don’t feel like I “must” constantly switch since that’s part of what I enjoy about having player agency and choices available to me without restrictions. Also - there’s been lots of people that have expressed that they play casually and have fun without feeling like they “MUST” constantly switch. Feeling that way is a player issue, and there’s players on either side that are happy in a game with flexibility built in.
There’s also MMORPGs that are successful without forcing players into these kinds of restrictions. There’s no MMORPG “diety” that mandates these kinds of restrictions exist for an MMORPG to be successful or “right”/“proper”.
No one is even going down this path - because no one is asking to be given something that hasn’t been earned. In your example, players still need to grind through the RNG casino to gear up each class.
In this covenant scenario - no one is asking for all covenants’ upgrades/features be unlocked once the first one is completed. There is still the expectation that if you want to utilize another covenants features, you’d have to earn them just like you did the first.
To your point - we’re actually asking for the covenants to be brought on PAR with how gear/progress for other classes works today. Meaning that once you’ve earned the rewards for another covenant, you can always switch back to it and pick up where you left off. Just like you can do with another class. But these restrictions are more like having to relevel and regear another class everytime you switch at the character select screen.
In short - no one is asking for progress to be duplicated across classes/covenants. We’re just asking that the progress we’ve earned be retained without cost.
If the game only had 5 classes and 2 of those were associated exclusively to the tanking and healing roles - sure.
But there’s so many combinations of classes and roles that having options to account for all of those differences - combined with affixes in M+ and further diversified in 10-30 man raids - actually enhances and adds depth to the game and an individuals class. That doesn’t even include PvP.
When you lock someone into a single choice - THAT waters down the game for the player when there was so much potential for player agency and exciting gameplay; instead they made a choice once, before they even got a chance to experience how the abilities would work in challenging content, and then forgot about it for the rest of the expansion.
It also feels like they’re just trying to push their "time played " metric.
I hate how a paid subscription game in 2020 feels more and more like a free to play game.
When you make a choice, the consequence is that you create a weakness somewhere else.
In the case of the cov abilities - if you select a ST ability, your weakness will now be AoE, or LoS, or mobility.
Having and making choices doesn’t eliminate weaknesses - it just allows choice for how to adapt and work together as a team. I’ve always found this enriching to the game as opposed to just being stuck with your spec/talents like back in Vanilla. There was nothing really to discuss, plan, and strategize for - but that’s also when content was watered down and easy.
True, but if you can easily swap those choices quickly, the weaknesses are far less detrimental.
If there’s three DPS running together for a Key; they can allocate which style of play they want on the fly for free. One can commit to strictly AoE, another can be ST, and the last can do both.
Now with the Covenants; it adds another layer of complication to the gameplay, something the player cannot outright mitigate by making a few clicks in the talent tree. Then it falls on the player to adapt to this obstruction using his/her own skill and knowledge.
If there’s an issue with numbers than deal with the numbers; if there’s an issue with an ability than throw out ideas to improve it.
Since a majority of players simply want to swap between Covenant powers and leave the ‘bad’ ones in indicates they want the game dumbed down, again. Anything that might whiff of an advantage has to be snuffed out. Profession specialties already went down, racials are really close, and the Covenant abilities are going to be another gravestone in the RPG graveyard.
I couldn’t disagree more.
To me having the ability to choose creates more depth not less. If I know the content of going to do any set up my character to suit it that is a good thing which adds more player choice to how they play the game. Not less.
The weaknesses for the player aren’t any less detrimental in either case.
I think that having the covenants restricted is what dumbs down the gameplay.
This is exactly how I’ve seen it.
Being stuck with a choice you made at the beginning of an expansion is what “dumbs down” gameplay as opposed to making it exciting and something you have to plan and communicate with your group about.
There’s nothing preventing those of us who enjoy playing in an RPG fashion from doing so even when QoL features are built into the game.
Players today CHOOSE not to use xmog or flying, and they don’t want those features removed because they’re aware that others find those features valuable.
Having covenants be easily switchable can function in the exact same way. My RPG style of playing wouldn’t be impacted at all.
How? Players get to pick the best tools for any scenario, how is that more detrimental than dealing with something that can’t change?
So the measurement of skill is being able to pick the best and optimal abilities at every beginning, compared to adapting to a skill that you cannot change, but still find uses for.
You still can plan and communicate with your group, the only difference is there is an additional obstruction to overcome instead of click-clicking it away.
Sure - technically you still could, but to a much lesser extent; watering/dumbing things down.
This is exactly how the restrictions water/dumb down the game.
How? How is adapting to something you can’t change more dumbing down than allowing you to pick the best ability at will?
That’s like playing a game of poker and, while the other players leave have strategize on which cards to discard, while you simply ask the dealer to hand you the exact cards to make the most optimal hand.
That’s like saying eating your cake is dumb when you have it.
I think there’s a difference between an obstruction to overcome and additional weight to carry.
It’s one thing to run a x mile obstacle course. It’s another to run x miles with an extra y pounds on your back.
Keeping covenants difficult to switch acts more like extra weight to carry - which doesn’t really add anything dynamic or fun to the game. To others’ points - this seems more like a dumbing down approach.
Because you lose out on the opportunity to use player agency to make a choice for varying content.
You end up just hitting the same button and never had to talk about choices that could have been made to account for the content you’re doing with the composition you have at hand.
A lot of what players find exciting and fun about the game is eliminated because we lose out on all the potential choices.
Why does there have to be only one measure of skill? That seems very low level to me.
We can (and should) have both.
I’ve always felt that choosing the right tools for the job was a part of being skilled.
Sure, you could figure out a way to use a wrench as a hammer - but skilled carpenters aren’t doing stuff like that.
Exactly. Picking the be right tools should be an important part of any content. Not a case of make a decision within the first week of the expansion then 0 more decisions for the next 2 years.
Edit. I think player choice is valuable. That’s why I want to make choices more often. Not less.
A good way to explain how the game is watered/dumbed down with a restrictive approach to the covenants.
So then leave Covenant abilities the way they are and you can keep swapping talents. See, both!
No, you lose out on the opportunity to erase mistakes. Player agency is making the choice in the first place; a choice that is specifically and identifiably tied to the Covenant faction associated with it.
That could be said for any ability. Constant AoE? Not going to talk about that Single Target ability. Stuns? Well you bet that they’re not going to work on the boss.
No, you lose out on the potential optimal choice. It’s human nature to skid along the path of least resistance, I.E. the easier route.
For once, just once, there should be a route that requires heavier lifting and have obstructions in the path. Profession specializations have already been laid to waste. Racials are on the chopping block still. No thanks.