No it shouldn’t.
Yes it should.
No it shouldn’t. It’s a terrible system
If you want to raid you use the raid loot system which is GL period.
PL is so bad that full group loot is miles better.
Not to mention PL has so many duplicate items like rings and necks that it’s still better than having gear that can’t be used because not having a diversified raid team in on you.
And no guilds gearing up in heroic early tier shouldn’t be penalized because people who support PL don’t know how the loot system works.
Finally, a discussion instead of your prior comments of “your way is bad”.
You are right that many people may not understand the capabilities of personal loot and guilds gearing though heroic and progressing toward Mythic shouldn’t be penalized.
This happens right now with Group loot with duplicated rings/polearms/shields/items in general, so this is irrelevant.
To clarify something, my discussion is strictly about non guild content and after reading your concerns, I change my stance on the Heroic comment I made earlier and agree with some of your points.
My discussion is focusing on pugs to be exact; LFR, Normal pug, Heroic pug and Mythic pug raids. Those most definitely should be Personal loot. As a matter of fact, Master Loot should be options for any Heroic/Mythic Guild Raid group as those are the teams that are generally working together to better the entire team with the goal of killing bosses as soon as possible.
Personal loot was removed from raids because of how easily organized groups could exploit it, though.
You have it all backwards.
Back on the original point: There is exactly 1 valid reason to deny someone the ability to roll in a pug/LFR setting.
And that reason is non-participation.
If you are complaining about someone rolling, and that isn’t the reason why you’re complaining, YTA. End of story.
Though one thing to note with personal loot. Least with the droprates during BFA was that to get the one particular BIS you wanted from a raid. You had to kill the boss 13 times for a coin-toss at getting it within those 13 attempts.
Which conveniently plays into 3 months sub time.
I think there is a lot more to it.
People also wanted the ability to easily trade gear too - which would never work in PL due to the capacity to exploit it.
So we can either get PL - or the ability to easily trade gear. Not both.
It’s even worse in PL. especially with offset items like rings necks and capes.
The primary consumer of raiding is guild content with pugging being a minority. You don’t punish the many to appease the few.
They could have simply removed the trading restrictions if that was the goal. Blizzard stated in DF beta that it was a problem how people were stacking raid comps to force specific gear to drop (under personal loot). That’s why it was removed.
A problem that is exaggerated if you can easily trade loot.
When no one can trade the loot they get - stacking armor types to get certain loot to drop is less of an exploitable issue because you can’t funnel it.
The stacking thing has been used since PL was a thing.
They tried that with Azerite armor (which, with original launch, was strictly non-tradeable under ANY circumstances). That didn’t go well.
Correct.
But that one was one limited gear type.
It was still restricted for everything else.
It would be equivalent of removing the restrictions for tier gear only.
Yeah sure, in a perfect world that’s true. In the WoW universe, that’s not been the case.
Personal Loot can be exploited, and it is also the case for group loot; see LFR as the prime example where I’m allowed to roll need on an item even if I have a 489 in that slot, as long as it’s not the same item anyway. I was much more causal than I am now when we had personal loot, but at that time it felt pretty good.
The problem with the Tier being personal loot is that it is no longer the token, it’s the item itself and this is what Brewa was talking about where you could stack the same classes to try to get more of the tier pieces to drop and trade it.
Both loot systems have their flaws and it’s not one size fits all; under the current iteration of greed/need it annoys unorganized groups and organized groups alike. Organized groups could do better with Master Loot and LFR can do better with Personal loot.
Blizzard seems to have some ideas on gear acquisition especially in the realm of tier pieces, so I am looking forward to their thoughts. I don’t pug anything except LFR in the early weeks for tier pieces and it doesn’t feel good. If this was my main content, then fine but having to do it for finishing a tier set or getting a trinket early on, doesn’t feel good.
Not even what we’re talking about.
The lack of information people on this forum have about how the game works is just astonishing.
Please enlighten me on what you are talking about. If we are talking about different things, it’s fine buddy - we are in a public discussion room where there are so many keyboard warriors and prophets so it’s alright.
GL was an improvement for the majority of the raider playerbase. That’s not even up for debate.
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The issue is you’re giving opinions while not having even a basic understanding of what you’re talking about.
You’re also not the first.
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One thing I dislike about WoW for quite some time now is all this “have to make money” garbage. It isn’t a community anymore it’s a freakin flea market. I’ve even turned off trade and services now for the first time ever because its a wall of text of people selling stuff.
If someone tries selling me something I rolled on and lost they are getting a straight no thank you. I am not paying for something they did not actually need except to make a profit off of. I’ll just do more runs till I get the roll and it is as plain as that. If they are on my realm I might block them. If I run into them again trying the same crap I most definitely will block them.
To each their own.