At this point even the OP has abandoned this ship.
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“Raiding for free?” As if people don’t enjoy the raid and only do it for loot? Again applying your PUG mentality to organized raiding.
If you don’t enjoy raiding, don’t raid. Compensation isn’t required when you’re having fun but clearly you aren’t lmao
Some folks do want master loot in normal/heroic raids.
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Count me as not among them.
That’s cool. But yep plenty seem to want to return to the WoD days of LFG being nothing but “LFM XXX raid, every single piece of gear even remotely worthwhile reserved.”
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What do you mean “the game”
and how are you guys having such a hard time understanding that loot councils still exist with PL and loot is still dictated by guilds, it’s just done in a much more convoluted way?
People that want ML back want the convenient in dictating where loot goes back, it isn’t that that doesn’t still exist.
Loot shouldn’t matter to the individual loot matters to progressing the raid.
Who has said this in this thread?
Why are you fueling these vitriolic arguments with these kind of strawmen? Look how hostile these people are and that seems like a good idea to you?
So how exactly did those people abuse personal loot by not trading you their drops? 
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If you can still do it, then who cares? The convenient way promotes toxicity. You’re just advocating for the removal of the lazy tax.
And how does the current way stop that toxicity?
Do you think people are allowed to join guilds and tell the RL “NOPE SORRY NOT GIVING YOU THE ITEM” ??
It is very, VERY hard to take you seriously when you don’t even understand how PL works in its current form.
The game, as in World of Warcraft. Is better, because ML has been removed permanently. Yes, ML was better for a minority of players. But for the health of the game as a whole, it was removed.
This mirrors your argument that loot is used for the betterment of a guild as a whole, and that individual wants, do not matter.
ala … ML being gone is better, regardless of what your individual needs are. it was done for the whole
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Man you need to take a deep breath and a break or something. You know as well as I do that I understand it fine.
Edit: I want to be able to discuss this with you, but in a rational way my dude.
… I don’t know that because you’re acting like PL in its current form solves any of the “toxicity” you seem to think is a problem with ML.
PL fixes the problems you see in Pugs. It doesn’t change much at all for organized raid groups other than that initial period of inconvenience.
In this thread, I don’t think any. This is a dance I’ve done a bunch across multiple threads though.
This all nice hypothetically but it not what actually happen when you guys done current content and have it on farm. The core will log out until next patch as they attain what gear they wanted. In fact this was a main point to remove Forging as you’ll never get BiS gear to feel complete.
The main reason for ML is to control and funnel loot to selective individuals in the core as fast as possible.
Okay glad we’re in agreement.
But are they leaving because they received loot? Or… are they leaving because the guild is heavily flawed and struggles to get through simple encounters?
How do you know what their motivation for leaving is? Do they stick their nose at you and go “HAHAHAHA, I got my loot now filthy elf, goodbye!”.
I am a solo player and have been able to clear most content through PUGs. I don’t understand how organized guilds can fail.
then the guild would die what are you talking about.
You’re literally making things up lmao
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