My guild has been struggling for most of this expansion. We’re not great and we’ve got a lot of flaws, but still. We’ve been trying to recruit and almost every week we’re seeing players come in, where we’re trying our best to make sure they’ll enjoy our raid nights. We are a little desperate, I will admit, and being quite gullible as to whether or not these new recruits are playing poorly and dying half way or intentionally doing it. And we wouldn’t believe that last part if it hasn’t been how so many of these recruits have left the moment they got what they wanted.
How is this fair on the rest of the guild? Guild members have given up because of it in other tiers and more about to do the same now. It’s not the whole reason for where we are, but it’s a big reason. We keep seeing and acting as if this entire loot system debate is one sided but BFA has really proven otherwise. We can’t do anything about it but be at the mercy of luck itself.
Maybe I’m just frustrated by the seemingly one sided discussion on this. I never thought tribalism would emerge over loot distribution but hey here we are.
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So you’re mad you couldn’t prevent random people from getting loot? 
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Not sure if this serious or a straw man, but I’ve seen this argument seriously made.
You still have to pay temp workers even if they’re only with your organization for a day.
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Someone will come in and say every one deserves the same chance at loot but that spits in the face of those that organize the guild, lead the raid, set everything up, etc. In their minds, you owe it to them to do all that voluntarily so they can get their items.
Real raiders know loot goes to the team and thats as good as it going to you. Good luck OP. Greedy players want forced PL to leech off guilds and make off with items
If you care more about your individual loot progression than the progression of the team, stay in PUGs.
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Why wouldn’t we be upset at being lied to by people who simply join us as a means to get loot and leave?
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They get paid in boss kills. Y’all dont solo the things
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We played fairly for a long time. Throughout MOP, WOD and Legion, we never denied loot to raiders and yes sometimes people left, but BFA has been a greatly different experience in people getting loot leaving us high and dry when they got whatever they wanted.
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This is a problem with your judgement then. Your raiders have the same chance of loot.
This
So the only thing that’s different is you can’t deny loot. Because of that i feel like this is a lie.
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If they downed the boss, and won the rng to get the loot, its their property, and they dont have a contract to do everything else with you, so not sure what the problem is.
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I’ve just decided your job gets to pay you in monopoly money.
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Players thinking loot is their payment is part of the problem lmao
Loot is for the team to progress. It’s not to satisfy your ego.
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This makes it sound like raiding guilds want slaves. Like damn, if you wont give them loot at least give them gold for the loot you took from them.
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People are losing sight of the problem.
It’s the INTENT people have of joining a guild as a ‘trial’ knowing they can’t be denied loot with ZERO intention of remaining. We don’t want to deny them intentionally, we never had plans to deny them intentionally. Stop trying to create a false narrative to fit your agenda.
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If you don’t want to raid, don’t raid. Raiding is the reward. Gear is a means to an end.
When gear is your only priority, you are not a team player. Guilds aren’t your anonymous, one off PUGs
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The solution is to get to know new players over time and gradually bring them on harder stuff.
Start by talking to them at length before you even play with them.
Do a thorough check on their history, that means armory stalking them and going through their logs and wow-progress history.
When you start bringing them, only take them on early bosses.
As you get to know them better, you can start bringing them on more.
If they really don’t want to be there, they’ll get impatient and jet, which is fine, because if they didn’t want to be there, you don’t want them there anyway. But at least nothing was lost.
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If you couldn’t down the boss the loot wouldn’t drop. This entire argument happens after loot drops, not before.
“Hi i want a raise”
Oh but sir. Dear sir.
Working is the reward itself. 
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Please say what the abuse was. I couldn’t find any abuses in your collection of text.
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The argument only happens when people care more about their individual loot progression than the progression of the guild. Those people belong in PUGs, not organized raiding guilds.
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I am part of a social raiding guild on another Oceanic server and I cannot say that we have had this particular problem.
Our main problem is that because we are social/casual, people with higher gear and seeking to “progress” often go off to join more advanced guilds, or start their own. I find that a bit weird, frankly: we have always been the way we are and I find it frustrating that people will play with the guild and benefit from its early stages of play, then shoot through when they have gained all they can, used the guild bank and the guild repair gold and been helped by other guild members to achieve things.
It does seem to me that players today have a very narrow and limited view of loyalty and decent behaviour. If greed and personal interest are all that WoW is about now, that’s kind of sad really. The reason I grew to love this game was the people I met through it, and they will always be more important to me than pixels.
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Thank you for the advice.
We’ll definitely have to be more tighter going into SL which sucks but so be it. It’s just a frustrating situation we have now.
1 Like