The loot belongs to the raid. It 100% did then and it still does now. All tradeable loot is still loot councilled off.
What the problem is is the occasional 1 person feeling that they deserve all the loot getting upset when the 19 others disagreed. So the 1 complains and the 19 others go on as normal because nothing unusual happened to them. The team acted as the team should. But that 1 complains… so whose voice is heard?
Yes i’m sure you have endless manpower, thats why raiding guilds advertise constantly on trade chat in my server.
LOL WHAT???
Ok I am fully convinced this is an LFR channel or something
Ok my example, when we got cutting edge Ghuun, we had 2 players in hospital, they better now if you wandering, a player just recently had a child and one was ill, this all happened on one week…
So we were down 4 players, 1 was core and 3 people where subs on the side… so what did we do, we Pugged the last spot…
HEAVEN FORBID people get sick and have lives turns your guild form a prog raid guild to a casual haha.
Did we think this all would happen, 4 players out… the only one we thought was our healer who had a child as we knew she was pregnant, and we had 3 subs for her spot as we planned ahead for the birth of her baby girl…
In short to your response… Sh@t.Happens.Thats.Life.
While this is good advice it’s not really possible for a lot of non ce guilds. Many just need bodies to even have enough to run mythic so it becomes a vicious cycle.
If you are making no effort to screen people before they try out, you are causing your own problem. If they die and you don’t know why, that’s your fault you haven’t figured out how to use logs.
Uh if I didn’t need gear to progress I would be thrilled would mean nothing needed doing outside of raid and I could just play the parts of the game I actually enjoy.
Wouldn’t a game without loot be amazing?
A game without indentured servitude would be amazing.
My dream mmo is one with no outside world you get a new raid every 3 months of six bosses and a new dungeon every month and there are portals. Very little in terms of upkeep costs you just have a central area and maybe housing or something. Also give me wildstar combat and the las type system with telegraphs. Would actually be viable because upkeep would be super low cost.
In terms of progression vendors would unlock with each boss kill which would give you one to two items for your class so once you cleared the raid you would get the full set which would have class based bonuses.
This is just the rehash of an argument we used to see when people were attacking each other over PL/ML after the decision was already made and out of our hands.
“All the trials we bring in are dead the entire raid, so we need to keep them from getting loot, because they don’t deserve it.”
This is ridiculous. Screen your trials. It’s not their fault if you’re incompetent to do a cursory glance at their history.
hate to break it to ya buddy
they aint raiding with you for your scintillating personality
people expect reward. randoms wont join your guild and suddenly become steadfastly loyal to the point of irrationality
if you clear content fast and loot flows, most will stay
“real raiders”
my god grow up
I think deep down, the real reason these guilds want to hoard loot is so people dont get geared up and leave them for better guilds. Which, as the OP said, is kind of a dick move if the guild was nice to you…but if the guild is keeping you weak to keep you dependent of them, then perhaps leaving would be a rational thing to do.
This is pretty disappointing to see. A lot of people keep twisting this to avoid having to admit that people abuse personal loot and the disadvantages guilds have simply so it doesn’t blow back on them. Not too surprising, just looking at other threads and seeing some people here demonise other players who support Master Loot as toxic, it wouldn’t reflect too well on them to suddenly admit their own “side” (ugh) is just as toxic.
No more GD it seems.
I sympathize with you that this happened to you. I dont know of a way to fix this from happening again, but in no way does it justify a return of ML.
Getting rid of PL would just be throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
It’s not entirely to bring back ML and I absolutely don’t object to PL itself, I just hate the way others have set one side to be bad and terrible. There’s legitimate problems that people overlook because they themselves are satisfied.
And the way this thread went - both sides of the argument - is showing me why there will never be a healthy discussion about it or a middle ground achieved.
If you were running your guild responsibly, you would have a good idea of who was capable and who was not prior to bringing them in for a brief trial.
is your guild bad? id imagine thats why they left. are they worse? then good riddance. they spent the time earning it, got lucky. it’s just how rng is.
sucks that you’re trying to recruit and running into this a lot. idk why theyre bailing though.
Unfortunately I’m not looking at the feelings in your argument I’m looking at the realities and also not assuming everything you say is real, because i don’t know you.
The reality is you want the ability to deny loot to pugs. You painted the picture of the worst pug ever, then potrayed your guild as the victim. Your proposed solution is the return of master loot.
A seemingly fair argument even if it’s not true.
You then supply extra information where you mention how in the past master loot wouldn’t have affected this situation to gain sympathy. This just better contextualizes your statement. The crux of the issue to you is denying players loot.
However, how would you know if a player would leave once they got loot anyway? Master loot doesn’t solve your own problem by your admission which leads me to believe what you actually want is the ability to deny people loot before they leave you. You want interns back.
That isn’t as victim-ey and relatable as you’re presenting.
The reality then becomes you want a widely abused feature returned in place of an existing feature that is generally more accepted by all except the hardcore of WoWs community. A good compromise would be allowing Master Loot for all Guild Member runs… But that would only solve your problem if they joined you and would potentially make joining a Guild be seen as “signing over your loot”.
During Warlords we had both. I pugged Heroic raids in Warlords. People would just leave if they saw master loot, and raids would fall apart anyway. So i don’t really see this as an issue that can be solved by a blanket return, even if you aren’t just lying.
This still looks like a judgement problem wrapped in a veil of emotional appeal.
The title of your thread is Personal Loot Abuse… Like i said I’m reading what you’re saying and removing the emotional appeals.