But then, there was the epiphany that some people were into playing evil races/factions. Whereas a LOT more people wanted to play as these "evil races (Forsaken not included) but as the good guys (Thrall’s Orcs during WCIII).
So, Metzen needed to come up with something for the undead. We seriously considered dropping them, but every time we looked at concepts/in game assets we balked. Then he announced the Forsaken.
How else would you interpret it? During the development of WoW Blizzard recognized the demand of players wanting to play an evil race but be the good guys about it. They struggled with the concept of playable undead, Metzen made the Forsaken to that demand.
Simple answer: We were hosed by the writing department.
Best solution: Dismantle the factions. At least at this point. Otherwise horde are going to low-morale land where they have to be dragged through the villain arc. constantly.
Secondary Temporary Solution: Make the horde leadership a council. This warchief business is bad, because we have enact the personality of a single character, and all of it’s inherent flaws and ambitions.
Also, it is activision writing the story. This is something to think about.
But his proposal basically amounts to smearing the Alliance power superiority all over the Horde player’s face. In content the Alliance player doesn’t even see.
The test of any system, like really anything in life, isn’t when things are going well but when something goes wrong and the system is put under strain. This is the second time in a very short period that the Horde’s political system has failed and in much the same way.
I don’t think that is the intended message blizzard is trying to send but this is the logical narrative conclusion to be drawn by them intentionally doing a MoP rehash. It’s case of ‘fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me’. This is the source of my biggest gripe with this whole thing. Blizzard effectively screwed over the Horde because they decided they wanted to give MoP another shot and didn’t bother to consider how WoW’s continuous narrative and the past established events would reflect on this storyline. Redemption stories don’t work if the one being redeemed keeps going back to their old bad habits.
I think that you are seeing things that aren’t there.
Alliance character is saying dialogue to alliance players.
Now, if this dialogue is from an horde character to horde players, then maybe i can see your point.
i fail to see how that would make it look sylvanas sympathetic,like at all.
i have 0 reason to think that she was talking about anything but the arthas invasion.
So she basically sees her as a monster. and all who follow her the same. As baine proved, twice maybe not all are sylvanas?
alliance character giving a biased opinion.
pellex, is this like that thread about “the horde only destroys because they can’t find beauty” or something like that?
This is… alliance perspective… nothing more and nothing less.
I feel like you missed the point? The reason they HAVE to pull their punches is because the power balance between the Horde and Alliance is terrible. The Horde simply has not enjoyed the influx of One-Man-Army style characters that the Alliance has since Cata, and the writing with each consecutive expansions since WotLK has put ever increasing emphasis on the importance of those One-Man-Armies. As a result, the Horde is weak, TOO weak to effectively do what Blizz is demanding from us this expansion; and in order to tell the story they want the Alliance has to be handicapped.
Its an unrewarding situation for everyone. The Night Elves especially are furious about Nathanos and Tyrande, but its not really a problem with Nathanos; because ANY of our representatives put in that situation would have been handled the same way. Tyrande was already a Demi-God which few (if any) of our heroes could handle toe-to-toe, and Blizz decided to give her a power boost? I know few things about BfA, but what I do know is that under no circumstances should the NE playerbase expect a full display of Tyrande’s new power when conflicting with the Horde (we cannot provide that challenge).
Driote, you are missing the point. The observation that there isn’t the balance of power to provide meaningful parity isn’t relevant, because the aim isn’t to have meaningful parity.
The desired outcome of those complaining about Nathanos/Tyrande is that Tyrande is supremely powerful, Nathanos is supremely weak, and Tyrande obliterates him and he dies then and there. The imbalance of power isn’t the problem - that’s what they want. They just want it followed to its logical conclusion, not solved.
So pretty much, destroy the entire Horde for Blizz using us in a role we had no hope of functioning properly in. Good thing Blizz isn’t going with the way these NEs want then (at least regarding instances that would result in our already shallow, underdeveloped, roster of representatives being culled). That would be atrocious, I don’t care if it infringes on the NEs already extreme power-fantasy.
It shoddy writing, but at least Blizz has some of their priorities right in this instance.
I’m tired of us playing the good guys, there are two factions but there’s no war in this game called world of warcraft. Their whole issue was trying to make the factions morally gray but what’s honestly wrong about having one side lean to more hostile or immoral motives? Take a look at Orgrimmar and tell me that it’s a perfectly welcoming place! We get Saurfang for Warchief- what then? What is he possibly going to do besides pretend he’s a pacifist…
Edit:
He’s going to yell Lok’tar Ogar at the top of his lungs while everyone else who plays a non-orc class rolls their eyes.
You are playing the wrong Horde. They need to get rid of factions or make a completely evil faction. Sylvanas can take the edgelords and start up at northrend or maybe sylithis. The whole point of the orcs story was redemption. To steer away from the horrors of the Second War, and to use as an example the foul Scourge and The Burning legion, as to what not to be. To be savage in battle, and honorable. To show the Humans and other races that we are not monsters, and have a place in this new world. As it’s defenders, defending ourselves and the helpless, of all races (I will just omit the undead in this case).
We were to be bad guy races that were good. Now we are just the bad guys. I will side with Saurfang and Baine. The only people from the Horde that know what matters apparently. If you take a look at Saurfang, his own son was killed at wraithgate by scheming forsaken and then taken and made into an instrument of Arthas’ Scourge, now he sees the same scourge in the methods of the new Lich Queen. So do I.
If you want to be evil, Horde was never supposed to be the faction for you. But terrible writing and awful character development has driven the Horde on this path whether they want to be on it or not.
What’s wrong with it is two things: (1) it wasn’t the Horde many of us long-time Horde players joined and (2) they keep trying to tell us they’re not making us immoral. If they’re going to change the faction to something different than what we were originally sold, they need to make it clear so that we can decide whether we want to stay or not.
Clearly you will be fine with it and stay, if they do decide that. But many of us would be out.
Not to make assumptions about what you’re actually playing in game (based on your avatar), but its funny you seem to pushing so heavily for a “villain Horde” solely for the sake of the perpetuation of a Faction conflict that was never really a good story … when your avatar is a BE. Not only should the BEs as a culture have HUGE issues with the Burning of Teldrassil (as it truly does lace their racial name with hypocrisy), but they also (as a race) have some of THE WEAKEST motivations out of any Horde race to be particularly invested in the Faction Conflict.
Again, not to make assumptions based on your chosen avatar, but whenever i see BEs (in game, or on here) saber-rattling for the Faction Conflict … I find it sort of funny.
Hey, that’s fair, but DKs really do have a strange relationship with their chosen Factions. Due to their affiliation with the Ebon Blade, they are almost independent contractors that simply prefer one faction over the other in who they choose to work for. Also, DKs need for conflict comes from the curse that has caused their creation … I would hardly call there being some greater “ideology” that someone how makes the Faction Conflict less forced. They can get their jollies off in other conflicts.
Maybe there’s a little overlap, but that one was about a balanced perspective in the game in-character, while this one is more about the game possibly talking to players out of character.
![:smiley:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")