Perception felt like it was not functioning, so I did some small scale testing to see what I could find.
I farmed 102 nodes in about 40 minutes. I was farming in Isle of Dorn, no Truesight potion. I have 18-19% Finesse and 22-24% Perception while mining, depending on if I am hitting Ironclaw or Bismuth, as I am specialized in mining Bismuth.
I have a Rank 5 Artisan’s pickaxe with 329 perception that is enchanted with Finesse and the mining headgear with 132 perception. I just have a normal Bismuth hoard with 191 finesse.
Finesse proc’d a grand total of 21 times, it proc’d 20 times exactly by 100 nodes, and I joking hit more until it proc’d again, which was all of 2 nodes.
You know how many times Perception proc’d?
Zero.
ZERO.
It has proc’d ONE time in about 400 nodes at this point, since getting the blue pickaxe. I was getting something like 3-7 null stones an hour when I had less Perception with a green pick. Now? I barely get 2 perfect stones in 400 nodes of Bismuth. Both the imperfect null stones proc’d off normal Ironclaw drops without perception.
Something is seriously broken with this stat, or the tooltip flat does not function as it describes. The way it reads, it should be increasing null stone drop rate. It’s currently absolutely doing the opposite.
I’ve noticed this as well, I get more perception procs from FISHING than I do from Mining or Herbing even though it’s only ~5% from the pole and weaverline. I sometimes do get perception procs but not even close to the amount I should be getting, and I NEVER see it proc for Crystalline Powder or Leyline Residue. Only very rarely on Imperfect Null Stones and Null Lotus, it says I have 12% but I am certainly not getting a proc every 10 rare material gather.
While I 100% agree that it is broken/not working correctly - from all information I can find, this is intentional.
I have not seen an ‘official post’/blue post, or even a green post from a trusted forum member that specifically confirms this - but many players have pointed out that ‘perception doesn’t do what you think it does’. I do not know if this is a bug or if it is a complete (and silent) re-design.
Instead of being a % of a rare proc, it is now ‘rare-finesse’. When a rare item procs, this is the % that you will get a 2nd of the rare item. From my in-game experience, this seems like a very plausible explanation of what is going on.
A) This is not perception or how it is suppose to work B) thanks for not telling anyone while they wasted all their crafting points C) If this change is intentional its dumb and basically ruins crafting as a whole
Anyone have an issue with ‘Null’ (anything) but stones in my case… Yeah, that’s because they f’d perception.
Perception only seems to proc when you find a rare item, where it gives you a chance at receiving a second of that item. Which is a downgrade from how it worked in DF, where it increased the chance of finding rare resources.
The only place i have seen perception work while gathering is on null stones, imperfect null stones and null lotus. It doesn’t work for crystalline powder or leyline residue. It does not increase the chances of getting a null stone or null lotus but when you do get one it can proc and give you 2 null stones or 2 null lotus. Given how useful these are, that still makes it useful. I think it should also increase the chances of getting a rare drop, but it doesn’t.
Perception works how it always has worked (or not worked I guess depending on your perspective). The only difference is that it seems to be proc’ing on ONLY null stone/null lotus.
You say you did 100 nodes.
Let’s suppose that null stones, or imperfect ones in your case, have a 2% drop chance from mining. So your odds of perception proc’ing is 2% * 22% = 0.44% chance.
Your standard deviation for your trial is sqrt(Np(1-p)) = sqrt (1000.0044*(1-0.0044)) = 0.66 procs
Your expectation value is 100probability = 1000.0044 = 0.44 procs
Thus you expect in 100 mining nodes for 0.44 +/- 0.66 null stone perception procs, i.e. between 0 to 1, which is exactly what you are seeing.
So, perception is working exactly as it says it does. It improves your 2% drop chance by 22%. It’s just that 22% of 2% is a very small chance.
This is how it always worked. The only reason you think otherwise is because it would proc off of things like salt and elements which had much higher drop chances. For example, if you hit an earth type node, you had 100% chance of getting rousing earth, so you’d have 100%*22% = 22% chance of perception proc’ing.
I would like to point out, as a skinner, this is the math we had to deal with ALL of DF. Perception only proc’d on blue skins for us in DF. We had almost 0% chance to get a proc, even with max perception. I complained about it in DF BETA. We complained all of DF. Blizz gave us “Sharpen Your Knife” in TWW. We are happy now.
If you complain for an whole expansion maybe Blizz will give you a “Sharpen Your Pickaxe”.
Read the tooltip again… It literally implies you have the % of your perception “TO FIND” said rare object. Nowhere does it say it multiplies your probability of the already very low drop rate.
While I am not neccisarily saying ‘this is untrue’ - I will say this is basically the opposite of my experience in DF. I thought that particularly the gathering proffessions were much easier, gave much more mats, and gave much more rare items. My final perception in DF with maxxed trees is not far off my prog in TWW and seeing nowhere near the same increases in mats.
The massive and noticable difference is the reason so many people are upset - which if it was happening in DF, there was no way it was to the extent in TWW. Once again, expressed by the prices… It was never 100k to craft an item in DF
It doesn’t say the formula for increasing your probability, but none of them do. Blizzard also doesn’t tell you things like the weights of the materials in your craft but nonetheless you can figure it out.
Does it increase the chance to find it? YES. Does it increase your 2% yield by 22%? YES.
So it does what it says it does. Of course it doesn’t give you the formula. This is Blizzard we’re talking about.
Ok, here’s some hard data. Taken: 3-31-23 starting at 19-34-46 N = 191
Sorted for only “non-elemental type nodes” (i.e. serevite and draconium normal, not rich, not molten, etc) N = 152:
Perception proc’d 8 times.
Of these times, 7 were salt. 1 was Khaz’gorite.
Perception chance was 27% for non-elemental type nodes at this time.
I do not know the exact Khaz’gorite drop rate, but it was approximately 5%.
expected proc chance for khaz’gorite perception procs is: 5%*27% = 1.35%
SD = sqrt ( 152 x ( 0.0135) x (0.9865)) = 1.422 procs (using standard deviation of binomial distributions)
expectation value = 0.0135 * 152 = 2.052 procs
So, I expect to see 2.05 +/- 1.42 perception procs of khaz’gorite in 152 trials, or, between 0 to 3 procs for perception that gives khaz’gorite. My results (1) were within the margin of error.
Similarly, salt had a drop chance of about 12%. The expected perception results were: 4.92 +/- 2.2. The results (7) were within the margin of error.
That is a different thing than perception. In terms of “how many items drop”, a regular mining trial (one ore hit) gave 2-4 ore WITHOUT perception or finesse. They currently give 1-2 ore in TWW. But the rate at which they are used is different, so the absolute amount doesn’t matter as long as the gather rate from all sources is near the use rate. TWW has added multiple sources for materials, including thaumaturgy, transmutation, delves, and snuffling.
In season 1, yes they did. People were charging 50-70k TIPS ALONE for Rank 5 in those early weeks when there weren’t many people who could make things.
Obsidian Seared Alloy, which was used in making those weapons, were 1200 g in Season 2 (my spreadsheet for that season says 1200.95 g); they were considerably more expensive in Season 1. I want to say they were around 4k for R3 in the first month, but I don’t have a spreadsheet for that season.
Obsidian Seared Claymore used 8 of these alloys. That would be approximately 32 k in these alloys. They also required 5 Primal Molten Alloys, which were cheaper, but still not “cheap” in the first month of the season; they were still more than 1k per alloy for R3. So yes, people were spending 100k for crafts in a comparable time period for DF.
If you just look through the forums, at a comparable time for DF, you’ll find plenty of people complaining about overly high prices in DF. Like this:
Or, how about those legendaries you crafted in SL:
I’m pretty sure everything you think this helps is also on some hidden weekly cap system making it a completely useless, if not an outright fake stat.
At some point the UI and stats got divorced from the game. It all feels phony now.
Used to be that what made you a tank was having more armor and aggro abilities. Now it’s setting your role to tank and an avalanche of scaling systems do everything else.
Seems like they have an outcome in mind and if the systems don’t produce it they band-aid a system on top of everything to force the desired outcome.
And the outcome it feels like they don’t want with all these systems is more work = more reward. So it’s all fudged to try and create an equal outcome regardless of effort.
I’m pretty sure this is 100% correct. It seems like certain things are hard capped no matter how much you grind, knowledge point items from gathering immediately springs to mind. Once you get your say 8 or 10 or whatever it is, you’re effectively done whether you have 10% perception or 50%. You can herb/mine 100,000 times and you won’t get another until reset.
Knowledge points are on a weekly cap, with a ‘catchup’ mechanic that’s tracked invisibly by quests, though there are weakauras that can reveal how many weekly and/or ‘catchup’ points you have available to gather.
There’s no weekly cap on obtaining Null Stones or other rare crafting reagents from gathering.
Some of the knowledge things are actually documented in the gathering profession journals. But there’s a lot that aren’t and you see them working the same way.
Maybe, but they sure seem to work like knowledge. You’ll get a whole bunch at once and then nothing until next week.
It’s always way too bursty for me for it to be entirely RNG. Especially Null Lotus.
I’m not sure that’s true. I can’t prove it one way or the other, but it sure seems like there is. Point still remains, perception is effectively all but useless.
